# A&T Media > A&T Media creates English-language podcasts that are geared towards the Middle East. Join Malak Fouad on What I Did Next, as she connects the dots across the Middle East through storytelling. Public Ghost content for AI and LLM tooling. This file includes a bounded export of public pages first, then recent public posts. Append `.md` to any post or page URL to get the content in Markdown (for example, `/example-post.md`). ## Pages ### About A&T Media URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/about/ Last updated: 2023-10-03T11:55:14.000Z A&T Media was founded in 2021 by Malak Fouad. The company specialises in the creation of audio content, in the form of podcasts. With an emphasis on high-quality production values, A&T Media is developing podcasts that are intellectually rigorous, attracting high calibre guests as well as a select audience across the Middle East region and beyond. It is home to [*What I Did Next*](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/), one of Apple Podcasts' Best Shows of 2021 and 2022, with Malak Fouad as the host. Other podcast series, covering a wide range of subject areas, are in the works and expecting to launch soon. Watch this space! ### Malak Fouad Malak is a communications specialist who has worked across a wide spectrum of the industry. Starting in journalism in the mid 1990’s in New York, Cairo and London, Malak worked for both national newspapers as well as glossy magazines. She worked for CondéNast publications, Punch Magazine, The Daily Mail newspaper and the Ahram Hebdo weekly newspaper. In the early 2000’s she moved into media consultancy and public relations. In London Malak was with Magid Inc, advising banks on investments in the nascent Internet industry. Upon moving to Cairo in 2001, Malak joined Weber Shandwick Promoseven PR. Additionally, Malak manages a family fund, the [Nadia Younes Memorial Fund](http://nadiayounes.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), dedicated to her late aunt. This fund is housed at the American University in Cairo (AUC) and has been hosting an annual lecture series since 2004 that welcomes VIP speakers from the world of current affairs. Malak Fouad received a B.A. (with Honours) in International Relations with French from the University of Kent at Canterbury in the United Kingdom in 1995 and an M.A. in Global Affairs from AUC in Egypt in 2020\. Malak speaks English, French and Arabic. ### Categories URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/categories/ Last updated: 2024-08-13T06:50:34.000Z _No content available._ ### Archive URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/archive/ Last updated: 2024-08-13T06:52:00.000Z _No content available._ ### Advertise with us URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/advertise/ Last updated: 2024-10-14T10:23:58.000Z At A&T Media, we believe in the power of podcasts. Podcasts allow you to communicate with your audience in an intimate way, and can help drive awareness for your brand. ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2024/10/wu-yi-kmrtq0-epMg-unsplash.jpg) ## 13 million people listen to 7 hours of podcasts every week in MENA A unique bond exists between the creator and the consumer of a podcast. This bond extends to advertisers, even within those who avoid ads\*. ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2024/10/IMG_1473.jpeg) The State of Podcast Advertising 2024\. Source: Sounds Profitable Our audience is global, multi-national, and intellectually curious. For the past 4 years, we’ve been working with top brands like EFG Holding to help them reach a new and engaged audience. Pair that with our team’s editorial expertise and creativity to amplify your brand’s power and reach. We have an extensive background in journalism, PR, and of course, podcasts. ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2024/10/IMG_1474.jpeg) The State of Podcast Advertising 2024\. Source: Sounds Profitable In addition to audio ads, we can also work with your teams to deliver video ads within our episodes on YouTube and on Spotify. If you’d like to know more about how we can work together, reach us at `info at at-media-group dot com`. ### Privacy Policy URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/privacy-policy/ Last updated: 2025-05-02T06:37:57.000Z This privacy statement outlines all the data that the A&T Media L.L.C. (“A&T Media” or the “Company”) touches & the ways in which this data is stored and may be used. A&T Media does not personally identify or track users who interact with its websites, and does not authorize the collection of personally identifiable information from users on any A&T Network site, sub-site or third parties through advertising technologies. Any collection of data is only through explicity user authorisation, such as during suveys, or user sign-ups to our mailing list. Currently, we collect information from users through the following touch points: - When signing up to our newsletter or a membership, you provide your name and email address. This is the only information we have about you and all we need to operate our newsletter or the membership program. - We use a few third-party services or vendors listed below to help with delivery of our content, delivery of newsletters and processing of payment where needed. - We maintain compliance with PCI-DSS by always using a compliant payment gateway, and never storing your full credit card number or any payment details. We collect data in the following ways: - If you enter into a direct agreement with the Company or any of our shows for the provision of services in exchange of payment, we will be required to collect the above listed personal information. - If you sign up for a paid membership, or to our newsletter, you provide explicit consent to us to collect the above listed personal information. - A&T Media may have legitimate interests for the collection of the above listed personal information, which will be done within the scope of current laws as applicable. Your data may be used for the following purposes: - Sending you newsletters and account-related email - Sending you statements or invoices - Collect payments from you - Sending you marketing information - Administer membership to the service (not active at this time) In any event where A&T Media discloses your personal information to its agents, sub-contractors or partners, the party in question will be obligated to use that personal information in accordance with the terms of this policy. This does not apply to third-party vendors that collect your data directly from you, for example when you sign up at a payment gateway to pay. The Company has no need to share any personal information with third-parties and does not do so. A&T Media may disclose your privacy information to the extent that it is required by law, in connection with any current or prospective legal proceedings and in order to establish, exercise or defend its legal rights. ## Services we use A&T Media uses a few third-party services to deliver our media and services. #### Megaphone We use Megaphone to host our shows, which includes our audio and video files, related show content and downloads measurement. Megaphone also manages our advertising inventory. - When you listen to an episode in a podcast app such as Apple Podcasts or Spotify, information about your device and what you're listening to is shared with Megaphone for analytics purpose. - Listener specific data collection by our provider includes: #### Plausible - Our web analytics tool is Plausible.io, an open-source project for web analytics run by an independent company incorporated in Estonia. The service is GDPR, CCPA and PECR Compliant and does not collect any Personally Identifiable Information (PII) or use cookies. - Plausible's [Privacy Policy](https://plausible.io/privacy?ref=at-media-group.com) and [Data Policy](https://plausible.io/data-policy?ref=at-media-group.com) ## Data security The Company will take all reasonable technical & organizational measures to prevent loss, misuse or alteration of your information that may be stored with us. All data will be stored on secure servers and all traffic to our website is done over Secure Socket Layers within the web’s Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTPS over SSL/TLS 1.3) as of June 10, 2018. Information collected by the Company may be stored and/or processed in, and transferred between any countries in which the Company or its partners operate. 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Please contact us & let us know if you believe we have any information about a child under 18. ## A note on GDPR A&T Media seeks to fully comply with the European Union’s General Data Protection Regulation, or GDPR. - You may cancel your membership or newsletter subscription at any time. If you wish your data to be permanently deleted, reach out to us at `info at at—medi–group dot com` and it will be deleted within 72 hours. - We do not carry out any data science projects on user data or have any plans to do so. Should this change, we will notify our users before doing so, and provide a reasonable timeframe to let us know if you wish your data to be deleted prior to such a change. - At any time, you may request any identifiable data we have about you, which we will do as soon as possible. - We provide an option to unsubscribe in the footer of every newsletter we send. This allows you to unsubscribe from the newsletter automatically without requiring our intervention. Upon doing so, we would not send you any further newsletters. Your name and email address would still remain in our contact lists, and you can reach out to us to have this removed as well. ## External websites Our website, newsletter & social media accounts contain links to other websites. A&T Media is not responsible for the content of these third-party sites or their privacy policies. ### Document Control We may update this policy as needed by posting the new version on [this page](https://www.at-media-group.com/privacy-policy/) with the updated version number and date. - Version 2.0, updated 22 April 2025 - Version 1.0 updated 10 January 2023 ### All Episodes URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/episodes-index/ Last updated: 2026-08-14T06:48:43.000Z _No content available._ ### For six years, ‘What I Did Next’ has given the region’s voices a stage of their own. URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/home-hero/ Last updated: 2026-09-15T06:24:48.000Z Join Malak Fouad as she unpacks the life journeys of the region’s most inspiring people. ### Hosts URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/hosts/ Last updated: 2026-08-14T07:21:16.000Z _No content available._ ### Guests URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/guests/ Last updated: 2026-09-10T11:47:39.000Z _No content available._ ### Library URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/library/ Last updated: 2026-08-14T07:55:06.000Z _No content available._ ### Sponsors URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/sponsors/ Last updated: 2026-08-17T05:11:38.000Z ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/EFG-Holding-logo-1.JPG) ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/AZZA_FAHMY_Seal_arabe_H_RVB_blue--1--1.png) ### News URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/blog/ Last updated: 2026-09-11T05:33:41.000Z _No content available._ ### Subscribe URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/subscribe/ Last updated: 2026-09-02T11:01:34.000Z _No content available._ ### What listeners say URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/testimonials/ Last updated: 2026-09-10T11:37:59.000Z #### ShouYaShou Came across this podcast coincidentally and was pleasantly surprised. Malak asks the right questions and brings on inspiring guests. Would love if the episode was longer but all in all, a great show! Thank you for surfacing motivational voices in the region doing incredible things! on Apple Podcasts #### JackieALawlor I am new to this podcast. I looked for a podcast with Tim Marshall as I am currently really enjoying one of his books. The interview drew out Tim’s humour and was a really interesting conversation which really gave me a sense of the man, his personal journey into journalism and what he is interested in. Brilliant! United Kingdom #### Nadia Plumbly This has been a long time coming but it took that long for me to realise how much a space ‘What I Did Next’ has filled in the literary and journalistic scene. I loved it at first listen and it went to the top of my favourite list of what to listen to next. Malak Fouad has very successfully put together a programme that is a bit Desert Island Discs, a bit The Penguin Podcast, a bit history, social culture, business…within an Egyptian and Middle Eastern context that is close to one’s heart. And with a very personal twist…every episode. United Kingdom #### shahiratoo I listened to all the episodes in one go. What a great podcast. Congratulations Malak. Can’t wait for the next episode. United Kingdom #### es.84 Huge fan from Australia since discovering this podcast just a day ago. Have been binge listening since. Australia #### NonameNora Can’t recommend this enough. Gives me faith and hope in the future of Egypt, my country which I love but chose to leave in 2014\. Can’t wait for more episodes. on Apple Podcasts #### Hannah Rashdan Malak Fouad delivers an inspirational and entertaining range of talks that dig deeper behind the headlines and the amazing people who shape them. Finally, the topics you need and want with real relevance to the region. on Apple Podcasts #### ZBaqir I don’t miss a single episode and always look forward to the next one. The guests are such interesting and inspiring people with fascinating stories, and Malak is such an engaging host! Highly recommend this podcast to everyone. on Apple Podcasts #### RShoeb An excellent podcast that sheds light on some of the most inspiring people of the Middle East, one of whom is the host, Malak Foad. They are role models, learners, passionate people who through their life stories share their most challenging moments, pivot points, successes, and wisdom. on Apple Podcasts #### NadisNoodles “What I did next!” sheds light on some of the great minds behind economic growth in Egypt. If you want to learn very quickly what’s happening in Egypt now, what are some movers and shakers thinking, doing, and planning, then this is the podcast for you! on Apple Podcasts #### Hana What better way to learn and get inspired, than to take a peek into someone’s personal journey? What I Did Next gives us a seat at the table with people who have listened to their hearts and followed their passions, these are some good stories! Malak is a gracious interviewer, and each episode makes you feel like you just sat in on a really interesting conversation. You will walk away with a new book to read, maybe film to watch, and always something to think about. Highly recommend it! 🌟 on Apple Podcasts #### Yasmine El Gharably I really enjoyed the episodes this season. The guests were extremely interesting in their diverse endeavors and offered forward thinking ideas and inspirations - it definitely stroke a thought process on Apple Podcasts #### NotYourTypicalSyrianInCairo Amazing podcast! Listened to all episodes in one night Thank you for the great content, such podcasts should have more exposure ❤️ on Apple Podcasts ## Posts ### Suzanne Zeidy & Rawah Badrawi URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/suzanne-zeidy-rawah-badrawi-on-egypt-recipes-and-stories-of-an-ancient-land/ Last updated: 2026-09-15T10:50:25.000Z I’m joined today by Suzanne Zeidy and Rawah Badrawi, the co-authors of a new book *Egypt: Recipes and Stories from an Ancient Land*, which is part travelogue and part culinary journey. They also happen to be two of my closest friends! SPONSORED BY [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) EFG Hermes One is your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) On Part 1 of our conversation, Suzanne and Rawah tell me how they came together to write this incredible book, and how they peeled away the fears and uncertainties of local communities to reveal a vibrant and rich culture not seen before by the outside world. ALSO SPONSORED BY ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/02/AZ-Website-Logo--Transparent-.png) On the episode, Malak is wearing Azza Fahmy’s [Fallahy Kaf Earrings](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/fallahy-kaf-earrings?%5Fpos=175&%5Fsid=8066ad361&%5Fss=r&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne), the [Mamluki Kaf Bangle](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/mamluki-kaf-bangle?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne) and the [Gold Roman Chain Ring](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/gold-roman-chain-ring?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne). Suzanne Zeidy is wearing Azza Fahmy’s [T-Lock Necklace](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/t%5Flock%5Flove%5Fnecklace?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=T-Lock+Necklace&%5Fpsid=0bd05e2d6&%5Fss=e&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne) and [Gold Rosette Necklace](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/gold-rosette-necklace?%5Fpos=4&%5Fpsq=gold+rose&%5Fpsid=db65de37b&%5Fss=e&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne), the [Joyful Ring](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/joyful-ring?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne) and the [Endearment Gold Ring](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/endearment-gold-ring?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne) Rawah Badrawi is wearing Azza Fahmy’s [Mabrouka Earrings](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/mabrouka-earrings?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne) and [Filigree Kaf Ring](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/filigree-kaf-ring?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzannehttps://www.azzafahmy.com/products/filigree-kaf-ring?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne). If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. We’ll continue the conversation in Part 2, where Suzanne and Rawah tell me about their life’s trajectories and take on our signature lightning round. That’ll be out next week. ```chapters 0:00 On this episode... 3:08 Suzanne’s first book: Cairo Kitchen 5:12 Rawah’s first book: Siwa 6:56 Coming together for ‘Egypt’ 16:36 The magic of Sinai 20:57 The book’s audience 24:59 AI and the Future of Books ``` ```vtt WEBVTT 00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:01.850 What did you leave out that you would have liked to put in? 00:00:01.850 --> 00:00:03.530 I don't know. This is a very controversial subject. 00:00:03.820 --> 00:00:04.260 That's an interesting thing. 00:00:04.800 --> 00:00:07.760 Usually food books, at least, are, you know, appetizers, 00:00:07.760 --> 00:00:11.660 Salads, main, boring. Right, right, right. Is there a photograph of her in the book? 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.740 Yes. There is. And she said to me, which I was so touched by, 00:00:15.740 --> 00:00:19.360 because of you, I'm really proud of my heritage. Wow. Yeah. 00:00:22.710 --> 00:00:27.140 This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing 00:00:27.140 --> 00:00:29.570 in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:44.110 This episode is also brought to you by Azza Fahmy Jewellery. This is exciting, girls. It's fun. 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:45.760 Well, you're taking our virginity. 00:00:47.360 --> 00:00:53.390 in terms of public appearances. The three of us have just come back from a three-day weekend, 00:00:56.340 --> 00:00:59.550 which was really fun. And it was a precursor to the interview. 00:00:59.550 --> 00:01:03.790 For the audience who don't know this, we've been friends. I've been friends 00:01:03.790 --> 00:01:08.300 with Suzanne from our teenage years, which is around the corner, of course. 00:01:08.880 --> 00:01:13.940 Not too long ago. Long time ago. Rawah and I met through Rawah's husband, 00:01:14.620 --> 00:01:19.620 attended their engagement, their wedding, and we raised our children together. 00:01:19.620 --> 00:01:21.780 So we are very, very connected. 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:24.060 We are completely intertwined. 00:01:25.240 --> 00:01:28.920 I consider you my family. I want to set the scene again on another issue, 00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:34.440 which is, of course, you are on the show because this month in September, 00:01:34.880 --> 00:01:38.060 you are publishing a book called Egypt. 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:44.700 part travelogue, part cookbook, part immersive experience in what Egypt is. 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:50.870 It's a glorious book. It's a stunning book to look at. It really does us proud 00:01:50.870 --> 00:01:55.440 as Egyptians. It does the country proud, and it's going to put us on the map, I know. 00:01:55.830 --> 00:02:01.430 So I'm really proud to have you as my guests. But you each independently had 00:02:01.430 --> 00:02:02.620 published your own books. 00:02:03.110 --> 00:02:06.660 So you knew what that world was. 00:02:07.180 --> 00:02:12.470 And for you, Suzanne, that came on the back of your culinary interests, 00:02:12.470 --> 00:02:16.730 and it was an offshoot of your restaurant brands. 00:02:16.730 --> 00:02:21.380 So, yeah. So Cairo Kitchen, with that, we had the idea of... 00:02:23.030 --> 00:02:28.580 well, it started with koshari. Yeah. So serve koshari, but not just that. 00:02:28.580 --> 00:02:34.540 It was also serve the foods that you'd have at your grandmother's house or these 00:02:34.540 --> 00:02:36.560 stews that take a long time to make. 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:40.370 And not everyone does it, especially the younger generation. 00:02:40.370 --> 00:02:45.720 They don't cook these things. So the idea was to serve the home-cooked style 00:02:45.720 --> 00:02:51.640 food in a canteen type of place. So someone walks in, looks at the pots. 00:02:51.640 --> 00:02:53.090 What's simmering today? Okay, I'll have this. 00:02:53.760 --> 00:02:56.660 And it was a great lunch place for people working in the area, 00:02:56.660 --> 00:02:58.560 I remember. So it was real food, 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:00.300 kind of. It wasn't fast food. It was... 00:03:01.190 --> 00:03:04.120 served quickly, but it was slow-cooked food. That was the idea. 00:03:04.610 --> 00:03:08.580 And so it was a community kind of place. 00:03:08.580 --> 00:03:14.380 And the first idea, which didn't work out really, was to make a cookbook of 00:03:14.380 --> 00:03:19.000 community recipes so people would supply their recipes. We went down that path 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:21.660 a little bit, and then that did not work at all. 00:03:22.970 --> 00:03:28.910 And we went a different path of basically getting the recipes from the restaurant, writing it down. 00:03:30.190 --> 00:03:33.310 But this was very much your baby. You were doing this on your own, right? 00:03:33.610 --> 00:03:33.750 Yeah. 00:03:33.890 --> 00:03:37.740 You didn't have a partner in the book with you. You were alone on that. Yes. 00:03:37.890 --> 00:03:43.990 Yes. And so I got a team out of the UK, actually, and it was my first time to 00:03:43.990 --> 00:03:48.090 actually see what it takes to put together a cookbook. 00:03:48.410 --> 00:03:50.610 And this was the first project you did on your own, 00:03:51.050 --> 00:03:54.840 right? Well, yes. I mean, it was within Cairo Kitchen, yes. Yes, yes. But it was... 00:03:55.040 --> 00:03:55.410 Your baby. 00:03:55.770 --> 00:03:57.320 Yes. It was your baby. It was. 00:03:57.320 --> 00:04:00.290 I remember that book had such a distinct aesthetic. 00:04:00.290 --> 00:04:00.550 Yeah. 00:04:01.010 --> 00:04:04.250 And I remember you were so immersed 00:04:04.250 --> 00:04:08.930 in the book and you were so particular about the photography. Yeah. 00:04:09.220 --> 00:04:12.150 And the photography was really unusual at the time. 00:04:12.150 --> 00:04:18.000 Maybe not so much in Europe and in the U.S., but for Middle Eastern cookbooks 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:22.790 were literally recipes like you'd inherit from your grandmother written on a 00:04:22.790 --> 00:04:26.800 paper. Exactly. No photography on a spirally bound, you know. 00:04:27.630 --> 00:04:30.350 This is what set it apart. 00:04:30.930 --> 00:04:37.680 People really noticed it. They liked the aesthetic of it. It was for the first 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:40.400 time you saw a plate with a spoon with 00:04:41.090 --> 00:04:43.720 food dripping off it, you know, it wasn't like.. 00:04:44.940 --> 00:04:47.150 No, it looked really inviting. Yeah. It was 00:04:47.150 --> 00:04:50.930 very inviting. So, you know, it resonated with people. Yes, yes. It really did 00:04:51.190 --> 00:04:53.940 And what of that process did you enjoy? The actual making of the 00:04:53.940 --> 00:04:58.020 book. I loved it. I mean, I love the aesthetic. I love the photography 00:04:58.020 --> 00:05:05.430 part of it. I loved, you know, a little bit telling stories but not as much 00:05:05.430 --> 00:05:07.040 as the book we'll talk about. The next one, yeah. 00:05:08.580 --> 00:05:13.170 But I loved giving my perspective, my view of it. 00:05:13.170 --> 00:05:18.880 So, Rawah, you jumped into a book. You had two collaborators who were photographers 00:05:18.880 --> 00:05:20.280 on the book. This is a book called Siwa. 00:05:21.020 --> 00:05:25.380 So I had gone to Siwa for a private occasion for my husband's 40th. 00:05:25.820 --> 00:05:29.320 And I came back to Cairo and went to Diwan Bookstore. And I said, 00:05:29.860 --> 00:05:32.420 do you have any books on Siwa? And there was nothing. 00:05:33.210 --> 00:05:36.700 And I thought, how could it be that one of the most beautiful places in Egypt, 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:39.460 has nothing on it? It's so photographic. 00:05:39.820 --> 00:05:41.980 So I approached my friends. 00:05:42.420 --> 00:05:46.400 They're not professional photographers in the sense that this is not their main career. 00:05:46.880 --> 00:05:51.240 They do other things in life. But I said to them, can you believe that this, 00:05:51.980 --> 00:05:57.000 beautiful place, which looks so good in photography, has nothing on it? 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:58.460 What do you think? Shall we do a book? 00:05:58.940 --> 00:06:03.260 And they said yes right away. So I had to kind of create a structure for how 00:06:03.260 --> 00:06:06.310 this book would look. I got a corporate sponsor. 00:06:07.300 --> 00:06:08.380 And that's how we did it. 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:12.910 What was it about the process of writing that book that you loved? 00:06:13.860 --> 00:06:17.040 Look, I mean, I love history and culture. Yeah. It's my jam. Yeah. 00:06:17.330 --> 00:06:22.910 So I loved learning about what had happened in Siwa, and it does have a very interesting history. 00:06:22.950 --> 00:06:23.890 It's a very unique history in Egypt. 00:06:23.910 --> 00:06:28.410 Going back to antiquity. Yeah, for sure. And I thought it's crazy that some 00:06:28.410 --> 00:06:32.930 people may not know that Alexander the Great made this huge detour to go to 00:06:32.930 --> 00:06:37.130 Siwa to consult what was basically like a fortune teller and be like, am I going to be great? 00:06:37.670 --> 00:06:41.270 Yes, you're going to be great. Off you go. Off you go. His army nearly died 00:06:41.570 --> 00:06:43.590 for him to go consult a fortune teller. 00:06:43.950 --> 00:06:48.960 But when I found out about its history, and the Siwens being probably one of 00:06:48.960 --> 00:06:52.110 the most unique, insular, introverted people you will ever meet, 00:06:52.570 --> 00:06:54.750 they're very mysterious, very secretive. 00:06:55.210 --> 00:06:56.740 I thought this makes a good story. 00:06:57.330 --> 00:07:03.390 You've each got in the bag an experience of doing a book individually, which you both loved. 00:07:03.730 --> 00:07:10.070 And it kind of unleashed, in a way, a creative gene or juice that maybe was 00:07:10.070 --> 00:07:14.800 always there, but you kind of found your grooves independently doing that. 00:07:16.780 --> 00:07:23.170 Fast forward several years, and you get the idea together of a new book, 00:07:24.420 --> 00:07:26.360 part travelogue, part cookbook. 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:36.490 Well, before that, I mean, Rawah will tell you about her, but I had an idea of doing another book but 00:07:37.690 --> 00:07:41.880 on the coast, about the coast of Egypt, the seafood dishes and all that. 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:46.940 But at the time, you know, I still had two kids at home. And it takes a lot 00:07:46.940 --> 00:07:54.550 out of you. And I couldn't quite take that step yet because I had my hands full still. 00:07:54.550 --> 00:07:58.290 Yeah. And you knew what a commitment doing a book was. It's a huge commitment. 00:07:58.290 --> 00:08:02.090 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is. I mean, if you're going to do it with an idea that 00:08:02.090 --> 00:08:04.450 you're going to finish it within a certain period of time. Sure. 00:08:04.750 --> 00:08:08.160 You know, you have to commit to it and put a lot of work into it. 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:10.460 So the idea was there, but I wasn't ready. 00:08:12.390 --> 00:08:16.330 Then after my oldest child went off to college, then we had our conversation. 00:08:16.330 --> 00:08:17.140 The idea came back. 00:08:17.140 --> 00:08:18.210 The idea came back. 00:08:18.990 --> 00:08:22.790 And you're currently living in Germany. Rawah, you're in the UK. 00:08:24.450 --> 00:08:27.970 So you kind of saw an opening to be able to work together. 00:08:28.190 --> 00:08:28.470 Yeah. 00:08:28.470 --> 00:08:28.830 Right? 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:33.160 We did. And, you know, we wanted to combine forces. And, you know, 00:08:33.160 --> 00:08:37.190 my focus is more food. Her is more culture and history. 00:08:37.500 --> 00:08:41.260 And so we thought, you know, together we could do something bigger than just 00:08:41.610 --> 00:08:46.040 the part I wanted to do or the part she wanted to do. And you'll talk about that. 00:08:46.040 --> 00:08:48.060 I mean, I just wanted to do Nubia. Yeah. 00:08:48.180 --> 00:08:48.980 Oh, you did? I did. 00:08:49.020 --> 00:08:49.990 So I went to the coast. 00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:52.440 That's all you were interested in. She was interested in the coast. 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:56.720 It wasn't all I was interested in. But it was what I thought I could do by myself. 00:08:56.840 --> 00:08:59.270 And just like she thought she could do the coast by herself. 00:08:59.300 --> 00:09:01.420 So had you already been thinking of something on your own? 00:09:01.420 --> 00:09:04.310 I had been thinking about something on my own. But don't forget, 00:09:04.310 --> 00:09:07.460 Malak, that what happened between the publication of our first books, 00:09:07.460 --> 00:09:11.430 which were, I think, a year apart, maybe just a year apart, the publication 00:09:11.430 --> 00:09:14.800 of our first books, what happened after that was revolution, 00:09:15.680 --> 00:09:20.290 moving countries, raising kids in new environments, putting them through high 00:09:20.290 --> 00:09:25.100 school and into college, COVID, in my case, a parent passing away, 00:09:25.100 --> 00:09:26.230 being sick and passing away. 00:09:26.230 --> 00:09:27.000 And in Suzanne's case. 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:32.230 And in Suzanne's case. Now, if you were to compress all of these big life-changing 00:09:32.230 --> 00:09:37.500 things, life sort of events where you need to be all hands on deck, 00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:41.370 there's no time to be writing the book on the coast and the book on Nubia. 00:09:41.370 --> 00:09:42.520 It's not a part-time job. 00:09:42.520 --> 00:09:47.800 It's not a part-time job. And so we accepted that this was a moment where our 00:09:47.800 --> 00:09:52.800 families and life needed us to do other things and put our careers on hold. 00:09:52.800 --> 00:09:55.160 You know, I mean, I know we're going to try and get to this later, 00:09:55.160 --> 00:09:56.970 but a man would never think this way. 00:09:56.970 --> 00:09:57.140 No. 00:09:57.920 --> 00:10:01.080 I mean, let's be honest. A man would never say, sorry, can't take the job. 00:10:01.290 --> 00:10:04.750 Sorry, can't move there because I have my family to look after. No. 00:10:05.340 --> 00:10:10.120 We are the ones that do that. I'm not complaining. I'm just saying that's the fact of life. 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:13.770 And I'm sure, Malak, you've seen this a lot. Your fingers on the pulse. 00:10:13.770 --> 00:10:17.990 You've seen a lot of these sort of essays about us being the generation that's 00:10:17.990 --> 00:10:19.860 between parents and children. 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:21.220 The sandwich generation. 00:10:21.220 --> 00:10:27.260 Where you're trying to take care of everybody at once. And so add COVID to that, add 00:10:27.260 --> 00:10:32.120 political turmoil, changing countries, there is nothing left on the table. Sure, sure. 00:10:32.800 --> 00:10:38.150 I feel like I walked the path with you girls every step of the way. 00:10:38.970 --> 00:10:42.700 I know what was going on. I was really interested in what was going on. 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:47.260 And one of the things I absolutely kind of fell on when you kind of said to 00:10:47.260 --> 00:10:50.930 me, we figured out the concept. 00:10:51.730 --> 00:11:00.530 And you guys said it's divided into four. So, coast, river, desert, and sea. 00:11:00.530 --> 00:11:02.470 I have to tell you how that happens. Yeah, do. 00:11:03.370 --> 00:11:05.510 I love this. And it's so brilliant. 00:11:05.510 --> 00:11:07.730 It was a light bulb Eureka moment. 00:11:07.730 --> 00:11:11.910 It's a light bulb moment. It was. So, you know, we had the whole country to 00:11:11.910 --> 00:11:16.480 cover, right? And usually food books at least are, you know, appetizers, salads, 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:18.820 main... boring. Right, right, right, right. 00:11:19.520 --> 00:11:23.330 And then, so I'm meeting up with Rawah one day and then she goes, this is what we're going 00:11:23.330 --> 00:11:26.590 to do. We're dividing it according to these categories. 00:11:26.590 --> 00:11:27.130 So remind me. 00:11:27.430 --> 00:11:28.240 And I hit my forehead. 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:30.860 I'm like, what? Coast, river. Sea. River. 00:11:31.450 --> 00:11:33.430 Sea. River. Desert. Desert. Mountain. 00:11:33.430 --> 00:11:34.030 Mountain, yeah. 00:11:34.410 --> 00:11:38.780 I said to her, I go, think about it, Suzanne. This is one of the few countries 00:11:38.780 --> 00:11:42.510 in the Middle East, if not the world, that has all these last games. 00:11:42.630 --> 00:11:46.680 And distinct culture, distinct food, distinct people. 00:11:46.680 --> 00:11:47.500 That was the point. 00:11:47.500 --> 00:11:50.060 We have to, like, show it off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:11:50.060 --> 00:11:50.180 Yeah. 00:11:50.180 --> 00:11:51.960 And so that changed everything. 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:54.530 It changed everything. It actually made our work much easier. 00:11:55.230 --> 00:11:55.910 I'm sure it did. 00:11:55.910 --> 00:11:58.630 Because we were structured in our thing. I'm sure it did. 00:11:58.630 --> 00:12:04.600 So I was trying to remember something yesterday. So you guys went and did reconnaissance 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:07.970 missions for each of these distinct areas. 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:12.230 And then you came back with the photographer and actually did the shoot. 00:12:12.230 --> 00:12:19.080 We visited each place two or three times. And then came back in the very end with our photographer. 00:12:19.270 --> 00:12:22.550 And in each of those visits, you said, ok, this is worth it. 00:12:22.550 --> 00:12:25.280 This is not. This is what we want. This is not what we want. Right. 00:12:25.280 --> 00:12:30.590 We nurtured relationships with people. Yes. So we had to make people comfortable, 00:12:31.050 --> 00:12:35.180 get these recipes, cook them, test them, get the story out there, 00:12:35.180 --> 00:12:37.150 do all of that. And that takes a lot of time. Yeah. 00:12:37.560 --> 00:12:40.900 And in Egypt, like a lot of places in the Middle East, it takes time to gain trust. 00:12:40.900 --> 00:12:41.500 Exactly. 00:12:42.160 --> 00:12:45.140 And I know, Suzanne, that your experience writing the first book, 00:12:45.140 --> 00:12:47.700 the Cairo Kitchen book, you loved working with that photographer. 00:12:48.180 --> 00:12:53.170 So you brought him back in. And there is a lot of similarities in the look and 00:12:53.170 --> 00:12:56.680 feel of those images. They're really strong images. 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:01.500 And so I always think of the aesthetic as being very driven by you. 00:13:01.920 --> 00:13:03.860 Am I right in that? Yes. Right. 00:13:04.280 --> 00:13:13.240 It's your eye on not just the food images, but the scenes in the cities as well, and the towns. 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:15.940 Location is as important as the food. Exactly. 00:13:15.940 --> 00:13:21.840 Suzanne is highly visual. Very. And so, again, this goes back to how we divide 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:23.120 beautifully with the work. Yes. 00:13:23.300 --> 00:13:30.040 is that she has no problems going over photographs over and over and over again 00:13:30.040 --> 00:13:31.780 until she feels the visual is right. 00:13:32.400 --> 00:13:35.560 I don't mind looking at them a few times. I know a good photograph when I see 00:13:35.560 --> 00:13:37.360 one, but I'm not going to fuss about it. 00:13:37.920 --> 00:13:40.540 She will find things. She will move things around. 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:45.700 Whilst I will sit there and just agonize over a paragraph or a sentence or 00:13:45.700 --> 00:13:46.820 a piece of information 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:50.760 Or a historical fact or a cultural treasure or a little secret. 00:13:50.760 --> 00:13:51.000 Yeah. 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:57.720 And so between us, we were able to like create that division of labor that was so perfect. 00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:00.490 You know, one of the things I loved about your book is obviously I got a 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:06.110 pre sale copy. I got the PDF and I read through it. I loved your introduction. 00:14:06.310 --> 00:14:06.650 Oh, yeah. 00:14:06.650 --> 00:14:09.800 How you each brought to the table 00:14:10.990 --> 00:14:16.910 your own image of what this book is and how you each brought your 00:14:16.910 --> 00:14:21.500 family into it. Yeah. And how you, Rawah, would talk about your dad always, 00:14:21.970 --> 00:14:25.270 you know, the sitting at the table with the family was so important when you 00:14:25.270 --> 00:14:29.530 were growing up. Yeah. And for you Suzanne, you know, bringing your mother into 00:14:29.530 --> 00:14:32.450 the book. I thought was really very strong, 00:14:33.850 --> 00:14:37.600 you know, she was the baker. She brought all the American 00:14:39.190 --> 00:14:43.080 comfort of being with your daughter in the kitchen and cooking. I could just see it. 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:45.490 The concept of a recipe is not from Egypt. 00:14:46.350 --> 00:14:49.620 But then, of course, me knowing you so well, I know how close you are to your 00:14:49.620 --> 00:14:54.770 father and how important he is for you as a grounding. 00:14:55.130 --> 00:14:58.100 But his love of food, it seeps through the book. And of course, 00:14:58.100 --> 00:14:59.580 he's got that wonderful photo in the book. 00:15:00.070 --> 00:15:05.090 There's another thing about that. So my father married an American woman, 00:15:05.090 --> 00:15:09.510 right? So the foods of his childhood weren't on the table automatically, right? 00:15:10.410 --> 00:15:14.710 To eat the foods of his childhood, he had to do it himself. You know, 00:15:14.710 --> 00:15:17.110 we didn't have a cook who just happened to.. because she 00:15:17.110 --> 00:15:18.910 wouldn't have known to make them. No. 00:15:18.910 --> 00:15:23.120 So he, you know, started cooking on his own out of memory. 00:15:23.420 --> 00:15:29.090 So for me, food got this connection to memory and meaning and emotion. 00:15:29.270 --> 00:15:30.120 I like that. That's really nice. 00:15:30.130 --> 00:15:32.130 And so I think that also seeps through. 00:15:32.700 --> 00:15:36.330 And one of the things I love about your dad and your relationship is that in 00:15:36.330 --> 00:15:40.590 summer, you and I are neighbors, he comes to stay, you guys go to the food market 00:15:40.590 --> 00:15:45.230 together, you buy the fish, you buy the crabs, he picks them and it's really, it's a really, 00:15:46.290 --> 00:15:50.070 it's a really nice bonding thing and it comes through in the book. 00:15:51.370 --> 00:15:55.590 So these are the kinds of things I like that you brought in, your own personal 00:15:55.590 --> 00:15:58.770 memories and connecting food to memory, place to memory. 00:15:59.310 --> 00:16:00.950 It comes through in the book very strongly. 00:16:02.710 --> 00:16:07.050 This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investment 00:16:07.050 --> 00:16:11.410 across more than 35 stock markets worldwide. With EFG Hermes One, 00:16:11.410 --> 00:16:17.220 you can buy and sell orders in real time for immediate execution across multiple global markets. 00:16:17.420 --> 00:16:21.070 You can keep track of your favorite stocks by creating and customizing multiple 00:16:21.070 --> 00:16:25.170 watch lists and make informed investment decisions with their advanced technical 00:16:25.170 --> 00:16:28.690 analysis tools to study market trends and investor behavior. 00:16:28.690 --> 00:16:33.320 So supercharge your financial journey and download the EFG Hermes One app on 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:37.140 the Apple App Store and on Google Play and start investing today. 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:43.440 What was your favorite part while you were doing your reconnaissance, 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:47.060 while you went back to film or record or go back with the photographer? 00:16:47.390 --> 00:16:51.960 Which was your favorite part of the country that you cataloged? 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:52.950 That's a very hard question. 00:16:53.030 --> 00:16:54.070 It's a hard question, yeah. 00:16:54.410 --> 00:16:59.590 I'm going to tell you that it's probably the places that I know the least and 00:16:59.590 --> 00:17:04.260 that are so sort of atmospheric. And so for me personally, it was the Sinai, 00:17:05.320 --> 00:17:10.030 because I had been to a lot of the other places. Of course, there were places 00:17:10.030 --> 00:17:14.650 I'd never been to, but they were still towns. They were towns on the Nile Delta 00:17:14.650 --> 00:17:16.300 or the Nile Valley or, you know. 00:17:17.080 --> 00:17:21.180 Dakhla, for example, I had never been to. But it's small considering when you 00:17:21.180 --> 00:17:24.450 go to the Sinai, this is a massive peninsula. 00:17:24.450 --> 00:17:28.780 And the historical element of the Sinai. I mean, it's got every religion is in the Sinai. 00:17:29.080 --> 00:17:31.330 Very biblical. And I thought, oh, 00:17:31.330 --> 00:17:34.130 I'm going to go there. And that whole spiritual thing is probably 00:17:34.800 --> 00:17:38.420 overrated. It's not really happening. But it actually hangs in the air. 00:17:39.220 --> 00:17:42.950 And when you're there and when you're in the monastery and when you're talking 00:17:42.950 --> 00:17:46.380 to, whether you're talking to the Bedouins or you're talking to the monks, 00:17:47.100 --> 00:17:52.770 there is a gravitas. There is a spiritual gravitas in Sinai which cannot be denied. 00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:56.040 You know what it is about the Sinai, I think? It's suspended in time. 00:17:56.660 --> 00:18:02.400 You're not in any decade, century place. It's just floating above everything. 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:06.110 That moment where you're on the top of the mountain or you're just kind of between 00:18:06.110 --> 00:18:11.580 the beautiful trees. There are ancient trees there and fruits and pathways and 00:18:11.580 --> 00:18:13.860 Sinai trails. It's very atmospheric. 00:18:14.280 --> 00:18:15.160 What about for you, Sue? 00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:19.160 Look, it's the same place. But, I mean, of course, being in the monastery and 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:22.360 speaking to Father Justin in the library. Oh, my God, that's just nuts. 00:18:23.890 --> 00:18:29.050 But there's this Bedouin girl that it took us two years to get her comfortable. 00:18:29.050 --> 00:18:29.540 Really? 00:18:29.540 --> 00:18:33.780 Yeah. So we met her. How old was she? 30s. Yeah. 00:18:34.330 --> 00:18:40.510 So at the very beginning, very conservative, of course. So I went first and 00:18:40.510 --> 00:18:45.940 I chatted with her. I mean, I got introduced to her by someone who knew someone who knew someone. 00:18:46.120 --> 00:18:49.160 And I showed up in her house and drank rose tea. 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:52.840 And, you know, she was fine to have me, a woman, visiting no problem. 00:18:52.840 --> 00:18:55.390 And I told her we're writing a book and, you know, we're going to come back 00:18:55.390 --> 00:18:57.640 and we want some recipes and all that stuff. And she was like, 00:18:58.020 --> 00:19:02.080 ok, I'm not sure. And I said, and our British photographer is going to come. 00:19:02.080 --> 00:19:03.740 And she's like, no, no, no, no, no. 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:09.470 What are you thinking? Absolutely not. In the end, we went back after many visits 00:19:09.760 --> 00:19:12.470 with Jonathan, with our photographer, and she was like, 00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:14.060 come, sure. 00:19:14.900 --> 00:19:16.310 What do you want me dressed in? Of course. 00:19:16.310 --> 00:19:17.180 That's amazing. 00:19:17.180 --> 00:19:19.820 And it took time. Yeah. But she... 00:19:20.280 --> 00:19:23.310 completely trusted us. She completely opened up. Is there 00:19:23.310 --> 00:19:24.970 a photograph of her in the book? Yes. There 00:19:24.970 --> 00:19:31.270 is. And she said to to me which I was so touched by. She said, because of you 00:19:31.270 --> 00:19:36.230 I'm really proud of my heritage. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And that was really really 00:19:36.230 --> 00:19:37.550 really because no one had 00:19:37.870 --> 00:19:39.150 highlighted it to her before 00:19:39.150 --> 00:19:42.450 right? Yeah, I don't know but I was, you know... 00:19:43.930 --> 00:19:45.350 Malak, don't underestimate the extent 00:19:45.350 --> 00:19:48.790 to which women in Egypt from all kinds of cultures feel very unseen. 00:19:49.990 --> 00:19:53.970 And it's hard. Life is hard. They're spending most of their time taking care of their kids. 00:19:53.970 --> 00:19:55.970 And they're indoors. They have no interaction. 00:19:55.970 --> 00:19:59.780 They're indoors. And so when they meet someone who says, I want to see what 00:19:59.780 --> 00:20:03.630 your grandmother wore and what she cooked, show me so I can take a photo. 00:20:04.010 --> 00:20:08.550 This is a very touching, moving moment for them. And we've seen women like this all over the country. 00:20:08.990 --> 00:20:11.550 They're usually hidden in their homes, taking care of their kids. 00:20:11.830 --> 00:20:13.840 They're, you know, struggling. Yeah. 00:20:14.630 --> 00:20:17.980 And this is just this little moment, this moment of light and connection. 00:20:17.980 --> 00:20:21.600 Did you find that the women were the backbone of all the areas you visited? 00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:22.390 Not all the areas. 00:20:22.390 --> 00:20:23.360 No. No. 00:20:23.610 --> 00:20:27.730 There are some areas which are very male-dominated in terms of they go out, 00:20:27.730 --> 00:20:31.270 they get the food, they bring back the food. Oh, really? Yeah. 00:20:31.270 --> 00:20:35.070 The Arabs in Marsa Matroh, for example, they do everything. 00:20:35.070 --> 00:20:37.890 Yeah. In Siwa, we didn't meet one woman. In Siwa, 00:20:37.890 --> 00:20:40.750 the woman almost never leaves the home. 00:20:41.270 --> 00:20:46.050 Famously, they will leave the home on two days, whether there's a wedding 00:20:46.870 --> 00:20:52.290 or a funeral. And if they do leave for that, they are in a blue shroud, 00:20:52.420 --> 00:20:54.930 not dissimilar to what you see in Afghanistan. 00:20:55.290 --> 00:20:58.350 This wasn't the way they were, by the way, but this is how they are now. 00:20:58.350 --> 00:21:02.770 When you were doing this book or as it developed and as it progressed, 00:21:03.260 --> 00:21:05.150 did you have an audience in mind? 00:21:05.150 --> 00:21:07.140 I didn't. I don't know if you did. I didn't. 00:21:07.140 --> 00:21:12.550 No, but let's not forget this book is in English. It will be hopefully translated 00:21:12.550 --> 00:21:14.510 in other languages, including Arabic. 00:21:14.900 --> 00:21:19.340 I will say that the Western reader may be the first.. 00:21:19.340 --> 00:21:20.680 the primary target. 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:21.290 Yeah. 00:21:21.290 --> 00:21:25.560 We weren't thinking in terms of distribution in Egypt, even though we knew the book would get there. 00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:29.770 But we were thinking more about educating the global reader about Egypt because 00:21:29.980 --> 00:21:33.480 our cuisine is or the Egyptian cuisine is a mystery for them. 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:36.100 Sure. You know, we talked about this over the weekend when we were together 00:21:36.100 --> 00:21:39.300 and we've talked about it many times. Egypt is having a moment. 00:21:39.770 --> 00:21:42.810 Egypt is with the opening of Gem (Grand Egyptian Museum). 00:21:44.070 --> 00:21:48.950 There is attention on the country. I think the timing of your book is fantastic. 00:21:48.950 --> 00:21:53.080 I know that these things are serendipitous. This is not something you planned. It just came that way. 00:21:53.080 --> 00:21:56.720 There's one thing, though, that we wanted to take the focus off of Cairo. 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.360 When anyone thinks of Egypt, it's like the Red Sea or Cairo. 00:22:00.390 --> 00:22:01.130 Or pharaohs. 00:22:01.310 --> 00:22:05.470 Yeah. Pyramids. We kind of wanted to say there's so much more, 00:22:06.070 --> 00:22:09.950 so many more places to go and see. And so Cairo is... 00:22:10.690 --> 00:22:12.400 part of the book, but a very small part. 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.190 Did you guys, when you settled on your concept and you had decided, 00:22:16.190 --> 00:22:19.370 okay, we're dividing up the country, we're going to talk culture, 00:22:19.370 --> 00:22:24.260 we're going to talk food, were there books that you had had in mind as role 00:22:24.260 --> 00:22:27.360 models, for want of a better word, or like you didn't? 00:22:27.430 --> 00:22:28.210 It doesn't exist. 00:22:28.670 --> 00:22:29.520 It doesn't exist. 00:22:29.520 --> 00:22:34.090 I mean, the only person that did this in terms of like seminal work is Claudia 00:22:34.090 --> 00:22:36.570 Rodin. She was the first person back in the day. 00:22:36.570 --> 00:22:37.850 But there wasn't culture with her. 00:22:38.170 --> 00:22:38.810 No, there was. 00:22:39.370 --> 00:22:39.860 It was food. It was pure recipes. 00:22:40.300 --> 00:22:45.690 But through the introduction to her recipes, there would be that reference to 00:22:45.690 --> 00:22:48.530 how this dish came about and where it may have came from. 00:22:48.530 --> 00:22:48.920 Right. 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:53.020 So she started the concept. That's why a lot of people think of her as a kind 00:22:53.020 --> 00:22:57.360 of cultural anthropologist. Yeah. And in fact, we met with her and sat with 00:22:57.360 --> 00:22:59.490 her and talked through our entire model with her. 00:22:59.490 --> 00:23:02.050 Oh, you did? Yeah. I know that she's endorsed your book. 00:23:02.430 --> 00:23:03.450 She endorsed our book. 00:23:03.510 --> 00:23:05.030 That's a massive, massive advantage. She read the book 00:23:05.490 --> 00:23:06.690 the earliest manuscript. 00:23:06.690 --> 00:23:07.190 Right, right. 00:23:07.510 --> 00:23:10.520 And she saw the earliest work and she loved it. 00:23:10.780 --> 00:23:15.580 She's an icon. She is. You know, absolutely. My mother was using Claudia Roden books. 00:23:15.580 --> 00:23:20.840 Her excitement for this book was very touching because she said it hadn't been 00:23:20.840 --> 00:23:21.950 done yet. Where's the book? 00:23:22.310 --> 00:23:25.530 So to answer your initial question, this book hadn't been done yet. 00:23:25.870 --> 00:23:28.610 And there is no book that does it in this way. 00:23:29.130 --> 00:23:33.110 First of all, there's no regional Egypt book. There are some books about food 00:23:33.110 --> 00:23:35.750 in Egypt, maybe some recipes. 00:23:36.060 --> 00:23:38.040 I know there's a Cairo book by Assouline, 00:23:39.730 --> 00:23:40.820 There's no book that kind of 00:23:40.820 --> 00:23:44.300 gets into the kind of region and here's this part and that part and this. 00:23:44.300 --> 00:23:48.600 You know, my father was from Alexandria and Alexandria, like your father from 00:23:48.600 --> 00:23:50.910 Port Said. It was a melting pot. 00:23:50.910 --> 00:23:51.160 Yeah. 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:55.550 So you had Jewish families next to Greek families, next to Italian families. 00:23:55.550 --> 00:23:58.310 Every iteration of Mediterranean. 00:23:58.310 --> 00:23:59.500 Which influenced the food. 00:23:59.500 --> 00:24:03.250 Which influenced all the food, influenced the architecture that you beautifully 00:24:03.250 --> 00:24:05.030 describe in the book in various cities. 00:24:06.140 --> 00:24:09.180 And that's why a book like that, it can be so rich. 00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:14.120 Because you have all this, you know, and I wonder maybe in a way we're very 00:24:14.120 --> 00:24:17.300 blessed in Egypt because we have such a rich history. 00:24:17.620 --> 00:24:17.760 Yeah. 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:23.470 That it made your research endless almost, right? Oh, yeah. You could just keep 00:24:23.470 --> 00:24:24.510 going and going and going. 00:24:24.510 --> 00:24:28.820 Listen, this book could have 100 volumes. If we were to take each place that 00:24:28.820 --> 00:24:33.120 we covered and go through it again, but cover it not properly, 00:24:33.120 --> 00:24:34.120 but cover it in more detail. 00:24:34.120 --> 00:24:34.760 In more detail. 00:24:35.300 --> 00:24:39.140 Also, there were a lot of cities that we had to not cover in order to prioritize 00:24:39.140 --> 00:24:42.400 others. There was a kind of like screening process. 00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:43.790 You had to make a choice. We had to make a choice. 00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:46.240 It's not comprehensive, right? It's a journey through. And so what 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:47.910 Did you leave out that you would have liked to put in? 00:24:47.910 --> 00:24:50.340 I don't know. This is a very controversial subject. That's an interesting thing. 00:24:50.840 --> 00:24:54.720 Because I'm scared if we tell you the people that come from there who hear this 00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:56.240 show are going to be, really? 00:24:56.560 --> 00:25:00.120 You didn't do my hometown? Interesting. But you know which ones. 00:25:00.120 --> 00:25:00.370 Yes. 00:25:00.370 --> 00:25:03.000 I want to ask you something else, which is something I've written down here, 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:06.940 because I'm spending a lot of time in the last year thinking of AI. 00:25:08.040 --> 00:25:13.420 I've been doing a lot of self-learning about it. I'm just really interested 00:25:13.420 --> 00:25:15.050 in it, and it's affecting everything. 00:25:15.410 --> 00:25:22.180 And I wonder what you think about that technology on the publishing industry as a whole. 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:27.920 Would we see a book like this in five years' time? Or would it be a different 00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:29.710 iteration? Would we have physical books? 00:25:30.080 --> 00:25:32.840 Will we still be publishing in this way? 00:25:33.040 --> 00:25:36.780 I think we will always have the physical books because I see something special 00:25:36.780 --> 00:25:40.340 in that. But this book is very much about a journey. 00:25:40.460 --> 00:25:40.990 Yeah. 00:25:41.510 --> 00:25:47.610 And so, no, you're not going to find something like this because the journey aspect is it takes time. 00:25:48.070 --> 00:25:51.290 And not just time to drive through it once. It takes a lot of time to go back 00:25:51.290 --> 00:25:57.250 and forth. And so this format, no, I think it's going to be very difficult. ``` ### Looking back, looking forward! URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/looking-back-looking-forward-2026/ Last updated: 2026-09-14T06:56:04.000Z This week, I'm sitting down with my producer Chirag Desai to reflect on a whirlwind first half of the year—from interviewing iconic figures and taking the show international to the importance of reclaiming our narrative. We talk about what drives the show, the magic of the MENA region, and what it truly means to create space for our own stories. I’ll be back in just a couple of weeks with two incredible guests, so I hope you can join me then! ```chapters 0:00 Coming up... 1:44 WIDN goes international 4:30 Reclaiming our narrative 13:25 An updated lightning round 18:12 What's next for Malak ``` ```vtt WEBVTT 00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:04.540 I think of our region, you know, as a mosaic. We are a multitude of different things. 00:00:05.020 --> 00:00:09.140 And I think we need to start looking at that as a positive. I wrote a lot of 00:00:09.140 --> 00:00:12.700 these new lightning round questions in light of the fact that I'm now firmly 00:00:12.700 --> 00:00:18.170 middle-aged, which is something I'm embracing and I'm not ignoring. 00:00:21.010 --> 00:00:24.890 Hi, Malak. Welcome to our 2026. Well, the first catch-up of 2026, 00:00:24.890 --> 00:00:28.320 basically. I don't know if there are enough words to describe how this year 00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:29.220 has gone really quite... 00:00:29.220 --> 00:00:34.180 Well, especially that you're sitting in Dubai and you've gone through a lot of changes. 00:00:34.380 --> 00:00:38.910 We want to take this opportunity as well to catch up on what's going on since 00:00:38.910 --> 00:00:43.270 the start of the year for the show. Do you have any special highlights from the start of the year? 00:00:43.270 --> 00:00:48.860 I think what for me was a real joy was, as usual, the breadth of our guests. 00:00:48.860 --> 00:00:52.750 I mean, the variety of conversations that I was able to have this year, 00:00:52.750 --> 00:00:54.600 the depth of the conversation. 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:59.180 If I just do a quick roundup, we had the icon that is Abdel Wahed El Wakil, 00:00:59.180 --> 00:01:04.230 who is just such a star and such an important figure in our region, 00:01:05.440 --> 00:01:12.160 reclaiming identity, reclaiming our heritage from the point of view of architecture. 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:17.140 And I have a personal connection to him because he's a family friend and I was 00:01:17.140 --> 00:01:19.530 really so happy to get his story. 00:01:19.530 --> 00:01:24.390 It was just really fun to listen to, by the way. Just listening to your grandfather 00:01:24.390 --> 00:01:28.200 just telling you stories about his childhood and his adulthood. 00:01:28.610 --> 00:01:31.710 I think that resonated really well. 00:01:31.710 --> 00:01:36.560 And his body of work speaks for itself. I mean, he's a recognizable name across the region. 00:01:37.010 --> 00:01:40.980 So I was really, really happy to do that. And to do it in his hometown, 00:01:40.980 --> 00:01:45.080 he lives in Doha. So I recorded that with him last December. 00:01:45.080 --> 00:01:49.130 You know, linked to that also was sort of almost this what I did next going 00:01:49.130 --> 00:01:53.250 international theme that happened, right? So you have filmed outside of Egypt 00:01:53.250 --> 00:01:54.690 before. We filmed in Dubai. 00:01:55.540 --> 00:01:58.820 But this time you also filmed in Doha, which you just mentioned with Abdel Wahed. 00:01:59.140 --> 00:02:01.210 But you also filmed in London. And so we had Nabila [Abdel Nabi], 00:02:01.960 --> 00:02:05.560 who incidentally was our first video episode on Apple Podcasts. 00:02:06.030 --> 00:02:08.850 So that was also fun. I mean, one of the new launches this year, 00:02:09.300 --> 00:02:11.240 Apple adding video as a thing. 00:02:12.460 --> 00:02:16.430 And then we've got another one coming out next month that was also filmed in London. 00:02:16.430 --> 00:02:20.510 There's another one coming up in September that I'm going to be filming in San 00:02:20.510 --> 00:02:23.780 Francisco in person as well. So that's very exciting. 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:27.670 So yeah, I mean, the show is...like 00:02:27.670 --> 00:02:31.970 a lot of businesses around the world now, there's no geographical frame 00:02:31.970 --> 00:02:36.140 for anything anymore. You can either be doing things online or in person anywhere. 00:02:36.140 --> 00:02:39.120 Yeah, and I think we've always said, right, that there's sort of as much as 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:42.690 we will obviously still do, and we are currently doing a conversation that's remote. 00:02:43.620 --> 00:02:46.410 Those in-person conversations just tend to be a little bit more meaty. 00:02:46.410 --> 00:02:49.350 There's more, you know, there's just room for more chemistry, 00:02:49.350 --> 00:02:52.820 both before and after and all of that. And so this was a nice opportunity for 00:02:52.820 --> 00:02:54.900 you to do it with them in person. 00:02:54.900 --> 00:02:58.080 I think it was just like a lot of the other things that happen in life. 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:02.460 It was just good timing. It was luck. And it just came together nicely. 00:03:02.930 --> 00:03:08.690 I'm not sure I'll be able to do interviews in, you know, in Australia or in 00:03:08.690 --> 00:03:10.600 more of, you know, further afield. 00:03:10.730 --> 00:03:15.450 But these just came together nicely. And then a big revelation for me was Thuraya 00:03:15.450 --> 00:03:20.050 Ismail, who I just really adored speaking to. 00:03:20.340 --> 00:03:27.520 She really is such a great rep representative for our region and she's really 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:34.240 personifies what's amazing about women from the region who are multicultural and who 00:03:35.020 --> 00:03:40.750 are giving back and I was very impressed by her and very inspired by her. And 00:03:40.750 --> 00:03:44.880 then you know there are so many all the other guests were amazing but I will 00:03:44.880 --> 00:03:46.440 highlight one more person 00:03:47.390 --> 00:03:51.820 and it's more about the way the interview came about, which is Tim Marshall. 00:03:51.820 --> 00:03:57.240 I've been chasing him for about two years on email to try and get him on the show. 00:03:57.580 --> 00:04:04.100 And finally, he accepted. And I actually met him end of last year at a talk 00:04:04.100 --> 00:04:11.380 he was giving in London. His episode came out in April. It was right in the middle of the Iran war. 00:04:12.020 --> 00:04:19.410 And so his insights were even more pertinent and important. And that was pure serendipity. And so now 00:04:19.410 --> 00:04:24.340 We are in the foothills of designing a new system. 00:04:24.490 --> 00:04:29.450 And it's very uncomfortable when we're going through these formative years because 00:04:29.450 --> 00:04:30.520 it's not what we're used to. 00:04:31.060 --> 00:04:34.980 And I don't know how it's going to settle down. I suspect it settles down into 00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:39.030 another bipolar world. Yeah. And I kind of also wanted to connect that to something 00:04:39.030 --> 00:04:45.380 else, right, which is sort of this, you know, the show has always been regional oriented, right? 00:04:45.380 --> 00:04:51.370 Absolutely. So the MENA region was a very conscious choice for me when I created the podcast. 00:04:51.370 --> 00:04:57.520 It wasn't Egypt focused. It wasn't coming from one particular place. 00:04:57.520 --> 00:05:00.780 But I really wanted to look at the region as a whole. 00:05:00.780 --> 00:05:06.510 You know, I think we've had such a bad rap over the last decades from a more 00:05:06.830 --> 00:05:10.370 further or a field, specifically after 9/11. 00:05:10.370 --> 00:05:15.960 I mean, the entire perception of the region was very warped by that. 00:05:17.330 --> 00:05:22.340 And I think, you know, we need to be reclaiming our stories. 00:05:22.340 --> 00:05:24.280 We need to be reclaiming our narratives. 00:05:25.890 --> 00:05:33.010 We are so past the colonial era, but we're still very much influenced by that 00:05:33.010 --> 00:05:34.740 and feeling the effects of that. 00:05:35.260 --> 00:05:38.820 And I think enough is enough. I think it's time that we stand up, 00:05:39.420 --> 00:05:44.030 we create our own stories, we tell our own stories. 00:05:45.170 --> 00:05:52.050 We are unbelievably educated people across the region, speaking languages in 00:05:52.490 --> 00:05:53.900 so many different industries. 00:05:54.330 --> 00:05:58.580 And it's time that we celebrate that. It's time that we highlight that. 00:05:59.050 --> 00:06:01.790 And that was a really conscious element of my show. 00:06:02.550 --> 00:06:07.580 I wanted to cheer that on. I wanted to put a spotlight on that. 00:06:07.580 --> 00:06:11.240 This is something that also, you know, constantly comes up on the show as well. 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:15.520 And we came up as recently as last month's episode with Dina, right? Dina H. Sherif. 00:06:15.530 --> 00:06:17.810 There's a lot to say for... 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:26.680 I think people being fed up with histories being written for them from a Western lens. 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:32.080 So as someone who was, you know, born in the West and was very much influenced 00:06:32.080 --> 00:06:36.490 by Western thought and philosophy and so on, 00:06:38.280 --> 00:06:42.520 the Gaza war for me was a real turning point, as it was for a lot of my friends. 00:06:42.520 --> 00:06:46.820 And I was lucky enough to get on the show last summer, Omar El Akkad, 00:06:47.450 --> 00:06:52.710 who, as some of you might know, wrote this unbelievable book called One Day 00:06:52.710 --> 00:06:54.860 Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This. 00:06:55.590 --> 00:07:04.540 And he is really lambasting Western democracies for the hypocrisy and the two-faced 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:06.000 approach to the Middle East. 00:07:06.760 --> 00:07:13.830 And although on an intellectual level, I had known that for decades, somehow emotionally 00:07:14.450 --> 00:07:17.280 his work really really touched me and 00:07:17.950 --> 00:07:22.310 the horrors that we were seeing in front of us on a daily basis just reinforced that 00:07:23.010 --> 00:07:27.930 and, you know, it kind of underpinned even more 00:07:29.150 --> 00:07:32.370 Why I'm doing this show. And at the beginning, when we started, 00:07:32.370 --> 00:07:36.720 and we've talked about this many times, it's 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:38.590 not the origin story of the show. 00:07:38.590 --> 00:07:42.890 You know, it wasn't, that wasn't the focus, but it's really become its own calling 00:07:42.890 --> 00:07:45.820 card. And it's something I'm unbelievably proud of. 00:07:46.310 --> 00:07:51.250 And it's attributable to the magic of MENA, 00:07:51.420 --> 00:07:56.120 the magic of the region where we have all these stories, we have all these cultures, 00:07:56.120 --> 00:08:01.060 these nationalities, these languages, we're all the same, but we're all different. 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:05.100 We're all having similar experiences, but we're all having different experiences. 00:08:05.640 --> 00:08:10.500 And if I can just shed a small light on that through the guests we bring on, then all the better. 00:08:10.630 --> 00:08:14.940 There's also just, in terms of just ourselves, right, we're always, 00:08:15.760 --> 00:08:18.980 you know, we also need that sort of sense of inspiration, maybe that sense of 00:08:18.980 --> 00:08:23.390 positivity that, look, there's so much happening here from the small to the big, right? 00:08:23.390 --> 00:08:27.460 It's not only sort of A headline and B headline, or there's so many things that happen. 00:08:28.320 --> 00:08:32.130 I mean, you know, through the show, we've met, heard from incredible guests 00:08:32.550 --> 00:08:37.870 who are impacting their own little circles, right? Even if it's not entire countries and the region. 00:08:38.700 --> 00:08:40.280 And I think that that's incredibly powerful. 00:08:40.950 --> 00:08:43.950 Absolutely. And I think of our region, you know, as a mosaic, 00:08:43.950 --> 00:08:46.240 we are a multitude of different things. 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:50.710 And I think we need to start looking at that as a positive. You know, 00:08:50.710 --> 00:08:53.960 we've been told for decades, it's a negative, it's a negative. 00:08:54.260 --> 00:08:57.890 Your region is nothing but problems. You're the source of so many global issues. 00:08:58.430 --> 00:09:03.580 But I think we need to start flipping that round and looking at ourselves in the positive. 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:07.470 And the stories on What I Did Next attest to that. 00:09:08.790 --> 00:09:13.700 People have surmounted a lot of challenges. And of course, the show brings that 00:09:13.700 --> 00:09:15.720 to the fore. We talk a lot about failure. 00:09:16.400 --> 00:09:19.450 We talk a lot about pivot points that are not on paper a positive, 00:09:19.730 --> 00:09:26.180 but somehow they do yield in the end a positive result for the person. 00:09:27.300 --> 00:09:30.980 And people learn from so much in their own lives. 00:09:31.620 --> 00:09:35.760 And so I found that something that we had from the very beginning of the show, 00:09:35.760 --> 00:09:38.120 it continues to be the bedrock of the theme. 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:41.390 And I think it's very valuable. 00:09:41.540 --> 00:09:43.860 A link to this also, I mean, let's talk a little bit about language, 00:09:43.860 --> 00:09:46.640 right? So I know this is a question that we get asked a lot. 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:50.960 I know this is something we spoke about actually way back in 2020 where we were 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:52.290 kind of just mapping things up. 00:09:52.290 --> 00:09:57.590 Yeah. So for me, What I Did Next when we started thinking about how this show 00:09:57.590 --> 00:10:01.580 would be, for me, it was a no-brainer that it would be in English. 00:10:01.580 --> 00:10:04.230 English is my first language. I'm trilingual. 00:10:05.400 --> 00:10:09.670 I'm fluent in English, fluent in French. But Arabic is my third language. 00:10:09.670 --> 00:10:12.510 And unfortunately, it's my weakest link. 00:10:13.020 --> 00:10:17.780 So I wasn't confident enough to do a show in Arabic. And that's very much the 00:10:17.780 --> 00:10:20.630 reason why it's an English first show. 00:10:21.220 --> 00:10:30.030 Of course, the show is subtitled, which we craft and add on to YouTube, for example. 00:10:30.030 --> 00:10:33.710 Also our social media clips, right? So anything that we share from the episode 00:10:33.710 --> 00:10:36.860 comes in both languages. I mean, it's subtitled in both languages. 00:10:36.860 --> 00:10:41.450 So the other thing I'm very conscious of and was very conscious of when we were 00:10:41.450 --> 00:10:46.910 formulating the show was that English as a language opens doors for the MENA 00:10:46.910 --> 00:10:48.510 region on a global level. 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:56.080 And the intention was always to have a global spotlight on the show in 00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:00.200 order to highlight the stories from the region. The other important fact 00:11:00.820 --> 00:11:06.590 that I think subconsciously I probably thought about and then got reinforced when we were able to 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:11.370 look back on some of our numbers, our demographics, was that there is an absolutely 00:11:11.370 --> 00:11:13.820 massive Arab diaspora around the world. 00:11:15.060 --> 00:11:18.920 There is a huge Arab population in North America, whether it's the U.S. 00:11:18.920 --> 00:11:24.100 or Canada, in Europe, as well as in Australia and elsewhere. 00:11:24.570 --> 00:11:28.690 And a lot of this diaspora are second, third generation Arabs. 00:11:28.690 --> 00:11:33.270 So having a show from the region that can be a link to their countries of origin, 00:11:33.270 --> 00:11:39.210 their region of origin, highlighting positive stories is a really big benefit. 00:11:39.210 --> 00:11:44.060 And we've received messages from people around the world saying how much they 00:11:44.060 --> 00:11:48.200 love that and how much they feel connected to the region because of the show. 00:11:48.670 --> 00:11:53.340 So that's an important element as well. And so English, of course, is a benefit for that. 00:11:53.340 --> 00:11:58.240 I would also say that like when we talk about diaspora, it's not only necessarily, 00:11:58.780 --> 00:12:01.680 Arabs who migrated or whatever, but it's just people who grew up here, 00:12:01.680 --> 00:12:03.640 grew up in the region, may have moved out. 00:12:03.640 --> 00:12:07.430 I mean, as in I'm not Arab, for example, and I have come back. 00:12:07.430 --> 00:12:11.710 But a lot of my friends, a lot of obviously people that, you know, 00:12:12.060 --> 00:12:16.580 called Dubai their home when they grew up or Saudi, as you mentioned, 00:12:17.220 --> 00:12:19.610 and then have gone on to live in other parts of the world. 00:12:19.610 --> 00:12:24.500 Right. So I think there is also that sort of tier of people that when we talk 00:12:24.500 --> 00:12:27.240 about sort of this global perspective of people who have interest in the region 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:32.020 for many reasons, who want to hear from the people that are building in the 00:12:32.020 --> 00:12:33.140 region, living in the region, etc. 00:12:34.260 --> 00:12:36.610 And I think it kind of caters to all of that. 00:12:36.830 --> 00:12:41.600 Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. And it reflects in so many people we've spoken 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:45.900 to on the show who are, you know, I think of someone like Fares Akkad, 00:12:45.900 --> 00:12:48.140 who is the head of Meta in the Middle East. 00:12:48.670 --> 00:12:54.980 He's of Syrian origin, living in Dubai. He's just one of many people I can think of. 00:12:55.460 --> 00:12:58.960 Thuraya, who was on our show this year, also of Syrian origin, 00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:03.000 living in Lebanon, but grew up in Riyadh. So like, and myself, 00:13:03.820 --> 00:13:09.070 Egyptian, grew up in Saudi, moved out of the region completely at one point, and now I'm back. 00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:14.240 So, you know, like our stories, there are millions and millions. 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:19.940 And that mix of nationality, that mix of culture is what makes our region so 00:13:19.940 --> 00:13:23.510 strong and so unique. And we're truly a melting pot. 00:13:24.400 --> 00:13:26.370 And it's our biggest strength, I think. Absolutely. 00:13:26.370 --> 00:13:29.520 All right. Well, so, I mean, as always, I mean, as is the tradition of the show, 00:13:29.520 --> 00:13:32.660 we've got to do a bit of a lightning round before we leave. Let's start with, 00:13:33.220 --> 00:13:37.100 like a little bit of a fun one is what fictional character do you most relate to? 00:13:37.830 --> 00:13:43.510 So it's a lovely question And it's a question that I think Like with a lot of 00:13:43.510 --> 00:13:47.000 the lightning round questions You have to think of the first one that comes 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:52.800 to mind Yes So one of the books I absolutely loved reading when I was a child Was Little Women 00:13:53.710 --> 00:13:56.380 by Mary Louise Alcott. And the 00:13:56.380 --> 00:14:01.920 fictional character from that book that I absolutely adored is Jo March. 00:14:02.350 --> 00:14:07.210 And Jo March is the eldest daughter. And I love her because she's absolutely 00:14:07.210 --> 00:14:08.600 doing things her own way. 00:14:08.970 --> 00:14:11.400 She doesn't follow the crowd. This 00:14:11.400 --> 00:14:15.610 was a time, of course, when women were expected to be in the home doing, 00:14:16.430 --> 00:14:21.940 you know, home-related activities, not at all going out into the workplace and 00:14:21.940 --> 00:14:26.070 get married and have children and obey your elders and all of this kind of thing. 00:14:26.070 --> 00:14:31.670 And from a very early age, because it was in the civil war, because it was set 00:14:31.670 --> 00:14:34.620 in the civil war, a lot of traditions had to be put aside. 00:14:35.030 --> 00:14:38.950 And so women had to go out to work and so on. But I love her because she is 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:42.610 completely authentic. She is completely 00:14:44.990 --> 00:14:49.220 following her own dream, her own path. She doesn't care who she offends. 00:14:49.590 --> 00:14:53.990 She just goes out and does her thing. And she carves out a life for herself 00:14:53.990 --> 00:14:57.800 that is exactly the life she wants. She becomes a writer in the book. 00:14:58.270 --> 00:15:01.770 She lives alone for a lot of the time away from her family. 00:15:02.110 --> 00:15:06.580 And eventually she does fall in love and she falls in love with someone completely 00:15:06.580 --> 00:15:10.320 different to anyone that is within the pages of the book 00:15:12.190 --> 00:15:19.110 and just love her uh her fearlessness and her ability to just go out and do 00:15:19.110 --> 00:15:25.960 what she wants um and she just comes across as such a real character because she's very flawed um 00:15:26.730 --> 00:15:34.410 she is uh tempestuous she's moody, she's just such a real person i mean 00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:40.200 I just found her really captivating and she's one of my favorite fictional characters. 00:15:40.620 --> 00:15:42.650 What matters much less than you thought it would? 00:15:42.650 --> 00:15:46.040 I wrote a lot of these new lightning round questions in light of the fact that 00:15:46.040 --> 00:15:52.390 I'm now firmly middle-aged, which is something I'm embracing and I'm not ignoring. 00:15:52.390 --> 00:15:57.010 What matters much less to me now is really people's opinions and what people 00:15:57.010 --> 00:16:02.200 think. And I'm much more concerned with what makes me happy, 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:04.660 what makes me peaceful and calm. 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:09.960 I'm much more likely to turn something down than accept it because I'm obliged to. 00:16:10.140 --> 00:16:13.480 So in contrast, like what matters much more than you thought it would? 00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:16.880 I think what matters much more to me, and this is something I've discussed so 00:16:16.880 --> 00:16:20.490 many times with my close girlfriends, is my close girlfriends. 00:16:21.020 --> 00:16:26.980 So people that I can really hang out with, be myself with, we're all, 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:30.280 you know, I can speak about maybe a handful of girls. 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:36.640 And they are girls. I don't know why they're girls, but they are girls who, 00:16:36.640 --> 00:16:41.420 for me, I relate to completely. You know, as an only child, 00:16:41.420 --> 00:16:42.870 my friends are really important to me. 00:16:44.040 --> 00:16:47.320 And we're all going through the same phase of life. 00:16:47.780 --> 00:16:52.590 And we're all relating to the same things. We're all finding the same things annoying. 00:16:53.580 --> 00:16:59.410 But we're also finding the same things attractive and wanting to be 00:17:01.100 --> 00:17:07.440 more peaceful, wanting to have more experiences that are fulfilling and not 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:12.850 be, you know, the concept of FOMO is completely foreign to us now. Let me put it that way. 00:17:14.260 --> 00:17:15.440 What is it that calms you down? 00:17:15.780 --> 00:17:20.590 Sports, especially swimming. For me, swimming is a real escape. 00:17:21.090 --> 00:17:26.190 It's like a, it feels like a meditation because you're completely cocooned into another environment. 00:17:26.810 --> 00:17:31.630 And I think the The repetitiveness of swimming allows the mind to just calm 00:17:31.630 --> 00:17:36.170 down and wander on its own. The other thing that calms me is my dog. 00:17:36.170 --> 00:17:39.000 So as some of you know, I used to have two dogs. 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:45.060 One passed away earlier this year, and it was a really big trauma for us as a family. 00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:52.580 And it's allowed me in a way to discover my second dog, who's much younger and 00:17:52.580 --> 00:17:56.210 was kind of hidden away or hidden behind the older dog. 00:17:57.320 --> 00:18:02.360 But he's now coming into his own in the home and he's absolutely adorable and 00:18:02.360 --> 00:18:05.490 he's just really cute to have around so he calms me down as well 00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:09.490 We have a nice memory of of your older dog on one of our episodes which is great, 00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:12.990 yeah. And then finally what's what's next for. 00:18:12.990 --> 00:18:18.790 you? So what's next for me is something quite personal so in September my husband 00:18:18.790 --> 00:18:20.880 and I are taking our youngest son to 00:18:21.570 --> 00:18:26.780 He's going to be on the other side of the world. He's going to be in California for his first year. 00:18:27.350 --> 00:18:30.500 And I'm actually having a really hard time coming to grips with that. 00:18:31.810 --> 00:18:36.760 First, you are going to be empty nesters, which is a really a big turning point, 00:18:36.760 --> 00:18:38.150 I think, in many families. 00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:44.860 And just, you know, his character is just so joyful. He's filled the house with 00:18:44.860 --> 00:18:47.370 so much laughter and his friends. 00:18:47.900 --> 00:18:52.270 And I'm just concerned about the, you know, what's coming next for me personally 00:18:52.270 --> 00:18:56.290 on that front. And I didn't expect for it to be this hard. When my eldest son 00:18:56.290 --> 00:19:01.660 went to college, it was cushioned by the fact that we still had a child at home. 00:19:02.140 --> 00:19:05.680 You weren't going all emptiness suddenly, right? Exactly. You were just missing him, yeah. 00:19:06.110 --> 00:19:08.720 So there's been a big change. And then plus with the, you know, 00:19:09.120 --> 00:19:12.540 our dog passing away earlier this year, it feels like the end of an era a little 00:19:12.540 --> 00:19:15.340 bit. And so it's a mental adjustment. 00:19:15.980 --> 00:19:19.020 And I thank God for the show because it's keeping me really busy. 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:21.810 All right. Well, I mean, that's that for this catch up. I mean, 00:19:21.810 --> 00:19:25.250 I've always, you know, we always want to say a big thank you to you who are 00:19:25.250 --> 00:19:27.640 listening to us at the moment or watching us now since, 00:19:28.220 --> 00:19:32.360 you know, we're on video everywhere to, you know, for coming along with the 00:19:32.360 --> 00:19:38.870 ride, for listening in, for commenting, for sending us feedback and just for being part of the show. 00:19:38.870 --> 00:19:44.070 I also want to say a big thank you to our sponsors, EFG Holding and to Azza 00:19:44.070 --> 00:19:45.890 Fahmy, who have joined us this year. 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:49.720 Thank you so much for supporting the show and believing in the show. 00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:55.920 We have an amazing lineup coming your way, a mix of all the industries as usual 00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:58.580 and really great stories. So stay tuned for that. ``` ### Karim Mekhtigian & Mohamed Fares on building a brand that became a movement URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/karim-mekhtigian-mohamed-fares-on-building-a-brand-that-became-a-movement/ Last updated: 2026-08-18T10:37:43.000Z This week, we're continuing the conversation with Karim Mekhtigian and Mohamed Fares, where they tell me about their design philosophy, and their new destination in Downtown Cairo, *Tamara Haus*, which is where we recorded the episode. SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) Karim & Fares, alongside Emy Hussein, are the visionary architects behind Cairo's premier design firm, Alchemy Architecture. Together, they have spent years shaping the architectural landscape in Egypt, setting new standards of quality, style and craftsmanship. On our [previous episode](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/karim-mekhtigian-mohamed-fares-alchemy/), Karim and Fares told me how they joined forces to create a partnership that spans two decades. I’ll be back next week with my producer, Chirag Desai, to look back at the year so far. ```chapters 00:00 - Coming up 03:43 - Local aesthetics, global influence 14:57 - Building the Alchemy ecosystem 18:00 - Tamara Haus ``` ```vtt WEBVTT 00:00:00.018 --> 00:00:05.458 The Cairo of your childhood was a melting pot. So we've always had an exchange of cultural... 00:00:06.318 --> 00:00:10.608 With the exception that we are this melting point, because when you are in Italy, 00:00:10.608 --> 00:00:12.118 it's extremely Italian. Yes. 00:00:12.418 --> 00:00:15.888 When you're in France, it's French. In Egypt, it's everything. It's everything. 00:00:15.888 --> 00:00:20.625 Alchemy Experience, we design, we own, and we operate. 00:00:20.764 --> 00:00:25.198 This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing 00:00:25.198 --> 00:00:30.093 in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. Welcome again to What I Did Next. I'm Malak Fouad. 00:00:30.244 --> 00:00:35.085 This is the second part of my conversation with Karim Mekhtigian and Mohamed Fares of Alchemy. 00:00:35.260 --> 00:00:37.274 I want to talk about a lot of different things today. 00:00:37.651 --> 00:00:41.935 I want to talk about the philosophy of design. 00:00:42.620 --> 00:00:46.707 You are partners in Alchemy and various businesses together, 00:00:47.195 --> 00:00:49.792 but you have very distinct aesthetics. 00:00:50.291 --> 00:00:53.159 You have very distinct ways of looking at the world. 00:00:53.867 --> 00:00:58.828 I want to discuss those differences. Obviously, there is a commonality between 00:00:58.828 --> 00:01:00.705 you. Otherwise, you wouldn't have come together. 00:01:02.098 --> 00:01:03.338 Or what, Fares? 00:01:03.338 --> 00:01:07.188 No, no, of course. Of course, a lot of things we are, we are, 00:01:07.188 --> 00:01:14.388 I mean, there is a lot that we agree on, but there is some 00:01:14.388 --> 00:01:18.318 differences. It's what made us continue throughout the 25 years. 00:01:19.850 --> 00:01:23.676 I learned from Karim a lot of things, a lot of things. He's my mentor. 00:01:24.024 --> 00:01:24.798 And I learned from him. 00:01:26.458 --> 00:01:31.738 It was really, really, I mean, something that I completed with each other throughout 00:01:31.738 --> 00:01:38.049 the journey. I learned a lot of things from him. I mean, 00:01:40.371 --> 00:01:44.226 I continued with him a lot of things, but along the journey, 00:01:44.226 --> 00:01:45.836 you have to have a few differences. Definitely. 00:01:46.336 --> 00:01:52.526 When you started, when you began your work together, what would you have said 00:01:52.526 --> 00:01:55.556 was your design aesthetic? What was your philosophy then? 00:01:55.556 --> 00:02:02.132 For me, I feel that design, it is the act of creating meaning, 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:06.421 atmosphere, and memory. 00:02:06.845 --> 00:02:07.420 And memory. 00:02:08.726 --> 00:02:17.701 This is what I always think about design. I want also to move from different creative practices so 00:02:18.415 --> 00:02:25.572 there is no barriers between design, art, fashion, photography, filmmaking. So, 00:02:26.031 --> 00:02:34.006 Is that a new way of looking at at the world of design years? 20 years, ago 50 years ago, people were in a box 00:02:34.006 --> 00:02:40.421 Yes, yes. So I think Alchemy created something out of the box 25 years ago. 00:02:40.572 --> 00:02:45.526 When you would walk into a space 25 years ago, how would you want to change it? 00:02:45.526 --> 00:02:48.094 What is it that you wanted to see in that space? 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:55.583 I always think about the space itself, how people will move, how people will react 00:02:56.958 --> 00:03:02.588 So, for me, when I design space, I start with a plan. 00:03:03.936 --> 00:03:09.050 The plan. Everything around the architecture is cosmetics after that. Yes. 00:03:09.329 --> 00:03:16.158 But the plan and the space and the volume is really, really what you have to 00:03:16.158 --> 00:03:20.248 tackle inside any space in any architecture project or anything. 00:03:20.498 --> 00:03:26.188 So I always think about the plans and the volume and the space and the experience 00:03:26.188 --> 00:03:30.768 inside the space in every single project since 25 years ago 00:03:30.768 --> 00:03:32.128 that hasn't changed 00:03:32.128 --> 00:03:34.188 Yeah, that hasn't changed 00:03:34.188 --> 00:03:39.188 Yeah, hasn't changed. And you, Karim, when you began, what was the the look and feel 00:03:39.188 --> 00:03:41.668 you wanted to achieve with the spaces you worked in? 00:03:41.668 --> 00:03:44.328 I'm a bit different from Fares 00:03:44.328 --> 00:03:49.918 When I think of you, I think of Italian. Italian? Italian aesthetic. No. 00:03:49.918 --> 00:03:53.828 That's what I think of when I think of.. when I think of your work especially.. 00:03:53.828 --> 00:03:54.808 I'm Egyptian, I'm Egyptian. 00:03:55.848 --> 00:04:01.958 But the early years, that was what I always felt with Karim. He had an Italian aesthetic. 00:04:01.958 --> 00:04:11.808 maybe the surface. Maybe, we had to do this so people.. we needed to grasp the the attention of everyone. Yes. 00:04:12.288 --> 00:04:14.878 Yes, but for you, what was the look you wanted? 00:04:14.878 --> 00:04:24.404 No, no, no. My aim was as because like Alchemy and alchemist and etc, so it was all about how, 00:04:25.443 --> 00:04:30.487 to elevate the quality of everything that we are doing in our life. 00:04:31.114 --> 00:04:37.731 This, through architecture, art, design, product, etc. This was the only thing. 00:04:40.651 --> 00:04:45.071 We started doing projects. In the meantime, we used to design the furniture. 00:04:45.891 --> 00:04:48.891 We did the lighting and the products. 00:04:51.171 --> 00:04:53.671 We managed the exhibitions. 00:04:54.091 --> 00:04:58.931 We still have at home two couches you made for us 25 years ago. 00:04:58.931 --> 00:04:59.771 25 years ago. 00:04:59.771 --> 00:05:02.431 And they're unbelievable, they're still the same. 00:05:03.499 --> 00:05:08.911 Amazing. From day one, Fares knows, I wanted to create a brand and to have an 00:05:08.911 --> 00:05:12.607 Egyptian product and to have an Egyptian message and to have, 00:05:14.311 --> 00:05:18.521 a local presence which can be global. 00:05:18.521 --> 00:05:24.943 You both completely revolutionized the design world when you started. 00:05:26.211 --> 00:05:26.811 We lost our hair. 00:05:28.373 --> 00:05:34.695 When I talk to people who have worked at Alchemy and have left since then, 00:05:34.834 --> 00:05:40.751 started their own businesses, they talk about Alchemy like it's the P&G of design. 00:05:41.091 --> 00:05:45.967 P&G is known as the marketing school, the best marketing school in the world. 00:05:46.402 --> 00:05:55.029 Alchemy is the same first-class education that all of these people have and now have become... 00:05:56.364 --> 00:06:00.677 part of the ecosystem, and you've seeded all that. You've seeded these people. 00:06:01.153 --> 00:06:06.238 You've provided an education that they themselves say very openly, 00:06:06.644 --> 00:06:12.615 I learned how to draw, how to scale, how to, whatever it is that they need to 00:06:12.615 --> 00:06:16.045 do, from Karim and Fares. And it's a school. 00:06:16.385 --> 00:06:19.015 You've created a school, actually. Was it intentional? 00:06:19.015 --> 00:06:22.865 No, it wasn't intentional at all. It was organic all over the years. 00:06:24.265 --> 00:06:26.056 But you're a perfectionist, both of you. 00:06:26.550 --> 00:06:27.725 Yeah, kind of. 00:06:28.165 --> 00:06:30.855 We have to. We don't have to be. We have to be. 00:06:30.855 --> 00:06:35.245 Work for us is not work. Work is our life. Work is our passion. 00:06:36.666 --> 00:06:43.266 So even when we are with colleagues and people working with us, they are family. 00:06:43.788 --> 00:06:46.557 They are really family. We invest in people. 00:06:48.065 --> 00:06:56.577 We want them to learn every single detail that we learned before I remember Karim 20 years ago 00:06:58.394 --> 00:07:05.539 We were not a lot. We had about 10-15 people. So we started to, 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:08.982 Karim, say, let's do the Bible of Alchemy. 00:07:11.039 --> 00:07:12.889 It's the guidelines, standardize. 00:07:12.889 --> 00:07:16.179 Our job is related with, we work in spaces. 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:25.759 So whatever is going to serve us and our colleagues and designers in the office, etc. 00:07:26.681 --> 00:07:32.499 You need SOPs, like sort of standards that you don't... 00:07:34.042 --> 00:07:39.979 So according to the relation of these details, 00:07:39.979 --> 00:07:45.529 It's all about details, standards, and a way of thinking. 00:07:45.529 --> 00:07:52.399 you know. Because we talk about always Alchemy, the alchemists etc, so it's 00:07:52.799 --> 00:07:57.429 we became branded. 00:07:57.429 --> 00:07:58.639 And there was a look and feel to an Alchemy 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:02.969 product. Yes, it's a way of thinking. It's a culture. It's a.. so you build 00:08:02.969 --> 00:08:08.779 up a sort of a culture which belongs to to us and who are whoever, our community 00:08:08.779 --> 00:08:11.179 which are the designers, our colleagues etc. 00:08:11.791 --> 00:08:16.249 So we wanted to create sort of this standards. We are doing this till now. Yes. 00:08:16.249 --> 00:08:21.619 And we renew it and we do and for the experience, for the hospitality, etc, we do 00:08:22.059 --> 00:08:26.629 our own standards. We don't follow other standards. Of course, there are basics 00:08:26.629 --> 00:08:28.099 and we have to have it but, 00:08:28.779 --> 00:08:32.462 we, this is very important. We create our own, 00:08:33.396 --> 00:08:43.730 details of like the door, our doors, our passages, our skirtings, our lighting method. 00:08:43.730 --> 00:08:49.720 How has your, you Karim, how has your style evolution evolved? 00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:53.860 How have your, how would, what is the difference between what you would do in 00:08:53.860 --> 00:08:57.103 a space today to what you would have done 25 years ago? 00:08:57.208 --> 00:09:00.140 And to start with, I don't have a style. okay. 00:09:00.820 --> 00:09:05.490 A lot of people think Alchemy has a look, that you walk into a house and you 00:09:05.490 --> 00:09:08.000 know Alchemy did the house, in some houses, yes. 00:09:08.680 --> 00:09:12.370 No, in general, what we believe in is, no, it's like it's.. you have to.. there is an 00:09:12.370 --> 00:09:14.896 evolution. There is an evolution and this evolution comes by, 00:09:15.377 --> 00:09:21.300 by living, by watching, by experiencing new things, by seeing what's going 00:09:21.300 --> 00:09:25.720 what's happening in this world and what's happening around you, your society. 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:28.860 The society 10 years ago, 15 years ago was not the same. 00:09:28.860 --> 00:09:32.332 That's right. The taste level has improved dramatically in Egypt 00:09:32.762 --> 00:09:33.853 Yes, of course. 00:09:34.010 --> 00:09:35.750 Partly because you guys have 00:09:35.750 --> 00:09:41.240 introduced.. not only us. Not only you. Because you have also internet and there's 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:42.780 a much more sophisticated client today. 00:09:43.400 --> 00:09:47.320 There was an exposure people they were seeing everything happening in the world 00:09:47.320 --> 00:09:54.080 so it was and when I came, it was like 1998. There was no this internet, 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:56.800 Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, etc. 00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:02.610 So, I mean, when you do something, it's like you have to convince and you have 00:10:02.610 --> 00:10:05.230 to put a lot of effort. You were saying, Karim. 00:10:05.230 --> 00:10:12.380 that when you began, you were very focused on trying to develop the local industries, 00:10:12.380 --> 00:10:15.342 the local manufacturing, all the local elements. 00:10:16.305 --> 00:10:21.663 But I know that both of you travel a lot. How much are you influenced by what you see elsewhere? 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:25.464 I know, Karim, that you've fallen in love with Japan. I've fallen in love with 00:10:25.464 --> 00:10:31.214 Japan. Some people are purists. They don't want anything to influence their thought process. 00:10:31.214 --> 00:10:35.974 No, we can't close this. I mean, you always learn. 00:10:36.761 --> 00:10:41.594 And this cross-pollination of different cultures, different understandings. 00:10:42.434 --> 00:10:46.059 I go, I learn how Japanese they think and how they produce. 00:10:46.321 --> 00:10:49.985 I go to Italy, I see the way and the process of their production, 00:10:51.272 --> 00:10:55.944 and I learn, and I bring whatever I can bring here, and I communicate with the 00:10:55.944 --> 00:11:00.134 local producers. And this work we have done for five, six years. 00:11:00.787 --> 00:11:08.794 We used to bring experts from Italy and do workshops with international designers 00:11:08.794 --> 00:11:12.314 and bring them and to make them work with local designers. 00:11:12.314 --> 00:11:17.435 This doesn't mean that I am being Japanese or being Italian. 00:11:17.610 --> 00:11:23.684 I am doing this because I need to understand also who I am and how I can think and how I can produce. 00:11:23.684 --> 00:11:27.141 And you said also Cairo of your childhood was a melting pot. 00:11:27.495 --> 00:11:30.634 So we've always had an exchange of cultural... 00:11:30.974 --> 00:11:35.274 With the exception that we are this melting point because when you are in Italy, 00:11:35.274 --> 00:11:38.657 it's extremely Italian. Yes. When you're in France, it's French. 00:11:38.988 --> 00:11:41.314 In Egypt, it's everything. It's everything. It's a mix, everything is mixed together. 00:11:41.314 --> 00:11:46.264 But that's the Arab world, actually. This is our reality also. Yes, it's our reality. 00:11:46.264 --> 00:11:48.934 I mean, this is also our reality since the pharaohs. 00:11:48.934 --> 00:11:54.574 But if you go to Sicily, you have an Arab influence. It's a Mediterranean experience. 00:11:54.574 --> 00:11:57.734 That's an influence. Yeah. That's an influence, which is different. 00:11:57.734 --> 00:12:01.014 Like Alhambra or Spain or whatever. 00:12:01.014 --> 00:12:04.437 That's part of us, too. There's a lot of curiosity. 00:12:04.611 --> 00:12:06.422 It's not influenced here. 00:12:07.357 --> 00:12:09.136 It's Egyptianized. 00:12:09.136 --> 00:12:16.746 Yes, yes. Even in language as well. Yes. There's a part that is curiosity of that 00:12:16.746 --> 00:12:22.276 you make yourself That you have a passion to see a lot of things 00:12:23.599 --> 00:12:29.056 different cultures. And then when you get back, you put it in your mind and then 00:12:29.056 --> 00:12:35.626 there is a mix that produces a different product with your heritage, with your life in Egypt 00:12:37.826 --> 00:12:39.116 But also for you, 00:12:39.116 --> 00:12:42.426 Fares, I know you did a filmmaking course in New York. Yeah, 00:12:42.426 --> 00:12:46.286 yeah. And you did a photography and you did a couple of exhibitions in London. Yes. 00:12:46.586 --> 00:12:51.578 How do these avenues of creativity feed you now? 00:12:51.706 --> 00:12:52.626 First of all, to me, 00:12:54.666 --> 00:12:58.746 the architecture and the design is like a movie scene. So this is why I studied 00:12:58.746 --> 00:13:00.413 New York Film Academy, filmmaking. 00:13:00.878 --> 00:13:04.206 And it helped me a lot. It helped me a lot. 00:13:05.046 --> 00:13:07.223 I think it was like 38, 00:13:09.226 --> 00:13:13.967 37. I started to feel that I'm back to 00:13:16.086 --> 00:13:19.792 20 years. That's a nice feeling. But I was 00:13:20.326 --> 00:13:23.306 very afraid. I was very afraid and there are people who are who 00:13:23.786 --> 00:13:29.836 are 22 years and I'm 38. I'm not used to this after all these years. But it was a 00:13:29.836 --> 00:13:33.686 very very nice experience. I learned a lot. I learned a lot from the people I 00:13:33.686 --> 00:13:37.046 went with, the whole group who are making like the final project. 00:13:37.046 --> 00:13:38.566 There were people who were 20 and 22 years old and I'm 38 years old. 00:13:41.570 --> 00:13:47.216 When you interact with people of a much younger age, this is the future for us as 00:13:47.216 --> 00:13:50.586 we age. We have to work with younger people. 00:13:50.586 --> 00:13:54.376 Yes, but by the way, Alchemy always, now, after 25 years, 00:13:54.376 --> 00:13:55.960 the generations are passing by 00:13:57.049 --> 00:14:01.202 I'm 00:14:01.312 --> 00:14:02.109 I'm young at heart because 00:14:02.849 --> 00:14:03.649 I'm surrounded by young people 00:14:06.729 --> 00:14:06.729 We have people who are 00:14:07.189 --> 00:14:15.710 21 years or 22 years after they graduated. It keeps the energy of Alchemy completely different 00:14:16.175 --> 00:14:20.939 And it keeps you in tune with what people want to do as well. Stay tuned because 00:14:20.939 --> 00:14:24.879 after the break we're talking in depth about Tamara Haus. This episode is brought 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:31.049 to you by EFG Hermes 1 your one app for investment across more than 35 stock markets worldwide. 00:14:31.049 --> 00:14:35.589 With EFG Hermes One, you can buy and sell orders in real time for immediate 00:14:35.589 --> 00:14:38.355 execution across multiple global markets. 00:14:38.553 --> 00:14:42.209 You can keep track of your favorite stocks by creating and customizing multiple 00:14:42.209 --> 00:14:46.309 watchlists and make informed investment decisions with their advanced technical 00:14:46.309 --> 00:14:49.829 analysis tools to study market trends and investor behavior. 00:14:49.829 --> 00:14:54.459 So supercharge your financial journey and download the EFG Hermes One app on 00:14:54.459 --> 00:14:58.274 the Apple App Store and on Google Play and start investing today. 00:14:58.483 --> 00:15:00.029 Talk to me about Alchemy Experience. 00:15:00.609 --> 00:15:04.584 We grew throughout the years organically 00:15:05.469 --> 00:15:12.340 And he sees something that has to be done. He's doing it. I see something has to be done. At the end, 00:15:14.046 --> 00:15:18.055 when you look back, it's almost 00:15:20.115 --> 00:15:25.365 we can have an ecosystem. You have to combine them. They can serve each other. I mean, 00:15:25.365 --> 00:15:29.842 I have the Alchemy, I have the production, I have the architecture, I have the designers. 00:15:30.248 --> 00:15:33.635 We are creating our spaces, we are creating, we are doing events. 00:15:35.295 --> 00:15:38.095 We were named the best event designers, etc. 00:15:38.810 --> 00:15:43.855 We're doing our branding, we're doing our, we had started our product 00:15:43.855 --> 00:15:50.055 products, production, a scalable business, which is like analog.. how to combine all of this under one 00:15:50.755 --> 00:16:00.575 and the toys business, and then why we don't start to have all this to serve each other in one space. 00:16:00.955 --> 00:16:06.035 And it's easy for us to create, because we have done all the elements. 00:16:06.035 --> 00:16:10.184 But with experience, the concept was to move into hospitality. 00:16:11.184 --> 00:16:12.175 Yes. No. Yes, yes, Karim 00:16:12.175 --> 00:16:12.995 No and yes, which one is it? 00:16:13.855 --> 00:16:18.215 No, hospitality is one of the services that you are offering. 00:16:18.695 --> 00:16:19.695 Okay. 00:16:19.695 --> 00:16:20.635 Of course, to make money. 00:16:20.635 --> 00:16:21.824 It's not an hotel, but... 00:16:22.956 --> 00:16:24.343 Yeah, yeah, it's not hotel, but... 00:16:24.535 --> 00:16:27.519 It's hospitality as in F&B or whatever. 00:16:27.979 --> 00:16:30.861 Okay, these are the services that it calls like this. 00:16:31.182 --> 00:16:37.219 But all our struggle is, what is the difference and what is the different experience 00:16:37.219 --> 00:16:39.579 that they are going to live in this building? 00:16:39.579 --> 00:16:46.095 So let me ask you if this is a comparable, like, if this is what I can compare it to. 00:16:46.635 --> 00:16:49.479 Soho House. I'm a member of Soho House. 00:16:49.479 --> 00:16:49.759 Me too. 00:16:50.059 --> 00:16:55.125 You go to any Soho House in the world, You know what you're going in for. Is that the idea? 00:16:55.619 --> 00:16:59.369 Regardless of whether it's a hotel, whether it's a restaurant 00:16:59.682 --> 00:17:05.149 It's like the Egyptian narrative of Soho House. Yes, 00:17:05.149 --> 00:17:08.883 yes which we don't have in Egypt Yes, we don't have We don't have it 00:17:10.090 --> 00:17:13.608 We have a lot of things that you can use for that, I mean, 00:17:14.061 --> 00:17:15.329 your heritage, your history. 00:17:15.339 --> 00:17:22.171 Yeah We have a certain place we also think about it out of Alchemy Experience. We also think about it 00:17:23.883 --> 00:17:31.279 and say: Alchemy Experience: we design, we own, and we operate. The operational part that we've been building for 3 years 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:37.606 we built this. This is fine. The other two are fine 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:43.539 The one of the operation, this is we are building it from scratch 00:17:43.539 --> 00:17:49.889 but this is where both of you, your perfectionism comes in 00:17:49.889 --> 00:17:54.019 you want to be in control of the entire experience, the entire product. 00:17:54.439 --> 00:17:55.309 There is no other way. 00:17:55.309 --> 00:18:00.829 What we agreed on that we need to build our own operational ecosystem within the whole thing. 00:18:00.829 --> 00:18:05.057 So let's talk about the space we're in. We're in Tamara Haus. It's been five years? 00:18:05.190 --> 00:18:06.979 No, four years. Four years. 00:18:07.479 --> 00:18:11.119 Okay. When Karim saw the building 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.019 I went to Karim Shafi. I said, I'm interested. Let's do something. 00:18:15.019 --> 00:18:16.759 He said, okay, what are you going to do? 00:18:17.059 --> 00:18:22.239 I told him, give me one month and I'll come to you with what I want to do. 00:18:23.470 --> 00:18:28.412 And then I prepared all the presentation, etc. I didn't say anything to Fares 00:18:28.412 --> 00:18:31.982 at that time. And then when I finished the presentation, I told Fares, 00:18:32.422 --> 00:18:34.900 I want to talk to you. Fares told me, no way. 00:18:35.370 --> 00:18:36.676 Why? No way. Why? 00:18:37.245 --> 00:18:38.322 You were overstretched? 00:18:38.322 --> 00:18:39.412 All of you were overstretched? 00:18:39.812 --> 00:18:40.282 No, no. 00:18:40.282 --> 00:18:41.082 Too much going on? 00:18:41.082 --> 00:18:42.132 No, no. Karim, 00:18:44.532 --> 00:18:49.972 the whole… At that time, the program was different than the final program. 00:18:50.372 --> 00:18:57.939 We changed it. Throughout the four years, we want to find a formula. 00:18:58.972 --> 00:19:02.712 We want to bring this place to life. 00:19:02.712 --> 00:19:07.332 And what's the formula now? If someone was to tell you today, what is Tamara haus? What would you say? 00:19:07.332 --> 00:19:16.812 It's a destination. With a platform that is catering for creative industries, community. 00:19:17.872 --> 00:19:23.237 We want to engage the new generation, new energy, 00:19:24.032 --> 00:19:29.862 giving a sort of forecast, what 00:19:29.862 --> 00:19:34.818 is living in downtown and how you can live in downtown and how you can, 00:19:39.652 --> 00:19:41.912 reuse this downtown building. 00:19:41.912 --> 00:19:44.948 And renew the neighborhood. And we all know this now. 00:19:45.598 --> 00:19:50.422 People want experiences when they travel. They don't want a five-star hotel that 00:19:50.422 --> 00:19:55.947 looks the same everywhere. They want the individual, personalized, local feel 00:19:56.243 --> 00:20:02.162 Experience is different. We always say that it's not a hotel. Throughout Alchemy 00:20:02.162 --> 00:20:08.962 experience we have other vision for things similar to Tamara Haus 00:20:09.948 --> 00:20:16.258 other projects, Inshallah, are coming soon. Yes. But we're not a hotel. 00:20:16.891 --> 00:20:21.641 Even we have experiences and some of the buildings that we will do, 00:20:21.641 --> 00:20:23.602 Inshallah, that will have bedrooms. 00:20:24.182 --> 00:20:28.961 This kind of bedrooms that we create different experiences within the lobby, 00:20:28.961 --> 00:20:30.981 within the restaurants, within, you know. 00:20:30.981 --> 00:20:35.271 And it's related with the location also. Yes. I mean, I'm in downtown, 00:20:35.271 --> 00:20:40.331 so I have all the stories of downtown, the untold part of downtown. 00:20:40.331 --> 00:20:44.894 And this was a bank. This was the headquarters of Tamara. 00:20:45.161 --> 00:20:47.951 So you're keeping the history alive this way. 00:20:47.951 --> 00:20:53.091 Something that history is a part of it. Yes. And we make use of that. 00:20:53.948 --> 00:20:58.308 And all our projects, more or less, it's sort of a time travel thing. 00:20:58.894 --> 00:21:03.211 It's like you don't know. You are in history. You are here. You are tomorrow. You are in the future. 00:21:03.671 --> 00:21:09.211 You told me a very nice story. We had come here for lunch a couple of years, a year ago maybe. 00:21:09.211 --> 00:21:13.631 You mentioned that you had spent a lot of time going to the antique stores of 00:21:13.631 --> 00:21:18.851 downtown and you're rescuing old pieces that you're going to include. 00:21:19.014 --> 00:21:23.031 I love this story because you're keeping the stories of the community alive. And we're still looking 00:21:23.711 --> 00:21:30.595 You know, memory and history is something very important in our environment. 00:21:31.001 --> 00:21:36.651 this is and commercially also. Whatever is with history is like really. 00:21:37.571 --> 00:21:40.771 It means more. It means more, it means a lot more 00:21:41.091 --> 00:21:44.881 Memory is very important in interiors and in architecture in our life 00:21:45.629 --> 00:21:50.581 So, Tamara Haus is going to have an aesthetic whatever project comes next whatever 00:21:50.581 --> 00:21:57.227 property you then develop will it be the same or will you be looking at each 00:21:57.796 --> 00:22:00.441 property with its own soul 00:22:00.441 --> 00:22:05.801 Tamara Haus now, to answer your question, we have the building is 4000 square meter. 00:22:06.765 --> 00:22:11.861 We have the first floor that will be the bank. 00:22:12.773 --> 00:22:21.138 The bank is a cross-pollination of design, fashion, food, art, 00:22:22.177 --> 00:22:25.979 so nothing before was created like this. 00:22:27.082 --> 00:22:32.481 And part of the ground floor will be Tamara Afandy, which is our department store. 00:22:33.810 --> 00:22:37.328 Also, we have a gym. We created our own gym, which is called The Vault. 00:22:38.570 --> 00:22:43.631 And the first floor that we are sitting in now is the designer's area. 00:22:43.770 --> 00:22:48.996 Let's say for someone like me, I live in Cairo. Would I become a member of Tamara 00:22:48.996 --> 00:22:51.556 Haus if I want to use facilities here? 00:22:51.556 --> 00:22:52.236 Yes, you can. 00:22:52.236 --> 00:22:55.126 Or just book a date, a restaurant booking and come? 00:22:55.126 --> 00:23:00.896 This will evolve within one year, because in the third floor and the fourth 00:23:00.896 --> 00:23:06.346 floor we are having our 28 keys which they are like, 26 suites and there are 00:23:06.810 --> 00:23:10.363 two suites, among them are two bedrooms, and there is a rooftop with a restaurant 00:23:14.996 --> 00:23:21.566 called 1910 restaurant, on the rooftop which it will be the all day dining concept 00:23:21.990 --> 00:23:26.733 People can come and enjoy the breakfast and lunch and dinner 00:23:27.784 --> 00:23:30.656 And, of course, we have Tchai Teahouse here in this floor. 00:23:30.996 --> 00:23:33.583 So you'll have three F&B outlets. Yeah. 00:23:33.734 --> 00:23:39.672 Yeah, okay. Three F&B outlets and the department store and the gym and the bedrooms. 00:23:39.910 --> 00:23:44.346 And looking ahead, looking to the next project, because I know that there is 00:23:44.346 --> 00:23:50.375 one or two things in mind, are you going to be having the same offerings? 00:23:51.397 --> 00:23:54.526 Yeah, sometimes within the building, sometimes we don't have bedrooms 00:23:55.159 --> 00:24:00.756 but we will create experiences which will be like F&B and some cultural space 00:24:00.756 --> 00:24:05.606 for events and everything. We are doing a project with the partners. they have 00:24:05.606 --> 00:24:09.596 the land in Soma Bay and we own 20 out of this land 00:24:10.484 --> 00:24:13.589 to create something which is called House of Ardea 00:24:13.804 --> 00:24:16.496 Ardea is the bird the name of the bird that yes yes. 00:24:17.116 --> 00:24:19.746 And we are calling it the Red Sea Chatter. 00:24:19.746 --> 00:24:20.526 It's a hotel? 00:24:20.526 --> 00:24:26.776 It's a branded residence and not a hotel, it's like bedrooms and experiences 00:24:27.336 --> 00:24:30.871 and the gym and it will be related to 00:24:33.123 --> 00:24:35.222 experiences and wellness. This is 00:24:35.222 --> 00:24:38.432 very needed in Egypt, a high-end wellness experience 00:24:39.372 --> 00:24:41.692 Yes and it will be in Soma Bay. 00:24:42.152 --> 00:24:47.744 Will I know as a customer that it's the same people behind Tamara Haus and 00:24:47.993 --> 00:24:50.838 Of course. Of course you will know. How? 00:24:51.227 --> 00:24:57.122 Because you have the same brand of the haus, the haus is the brand of the hospitality 00:24:57.122 --> 00:25:05.200 The same. Yeah. But you will see and you you will feel that these people, that it's our project. 00:25:05.752 --> 00:25:08.002 You will feel it. You will feel it. With the name. 00:25:08.002 --> 00:25:08.468 Yes. 00:25:08.572 --> 00:25:11.122 With the storytelling. And with the teaser. 00:25:11.353 --> 00:25:15.862 And also with the experience within the space. Yeah. Right? 00:25:15.862 --> 00:25:24.532 As I told you, it's like you are going to live in a time travel. You don't know you are in 1910 or 2026, 00:25:27.027 --> 00:25:35.182 or 2050. So we are cooking certain situations that will happen, 00:25:35.182 --> 00:25:39.941 certain scenarios that will happen during, it's not only, 00:25:42.008 --> 00:25:43.976 the 00:25:44.742 --> 00:25:48.895 The staff is, they are performers, they are performing, they are performing 00:25:48.895 --> 00:25:51.899 their acts, they are performing, there is a story. 00:25:52.565 --> 00:25:57.885 And each space and each level, 00:26:04.285 --> 00:26:08.485 has its own story. And things will happen. And I mean, as I told you, 00:26:08.945 --> 00:26:14.690 we are creating a sort of lobby, and we name it, Meet Me at the Lobby. 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:20.805 because you don't know who you're going to meet, but there will be certain... 00:26:21.265 --> 00:26:24.205 We are going to provoke certain meetings, certain happenings, 00:26:24.205 --> 00:26:32.265 people that they might add something in your story and in your life. 00:26:32.265 --> 00:26:36.385 Fares was just telling us before we started recording that you were in the 00:26:36.385 --> 00:26:41.763 UK for an important meeting and you were staying at one of the most fabulous 00:26:42.291 --> 00:26:44.230 global brands that we all love. 00:26:44.927 --> 00:26:49.060 and they had a butler that was provided for you. 00:26:49.675 --> 00:26:55.385 These are the touches, not necessarily the butler, but it's these one-off gestures 00:26:55.385 --> 00:26:56.795 that you don't get anywhere else. 00:26:56.795 --> 00:26:57.703 Here we have the depot. 00:26:58.267 --> 00:26:59.465 You have the depot? Yeah. 00:26:59.465 --> 00:27:04.405 What is that? The depot is our toy. It's our person, he's our character. 00:27:04.945 --> 00:27:07.065 The character that we build up throughout years. 00:27:07.065 --> 00:27:12.129 Yeah, but what will I come away from staying at Tamara Haus 00:27:12.756 --> 00:27:16.710 and I'll think I have to go back to Cairo and I have to stay again at the Tamara 00:27:16.710 --> 00:27:19.620 Haus. What is going to be that hook? 00:27:20.300 --> 00:27:25.860 I think because of the, first of all, this place will be.. it's already 00:27:25.860 --> 00:27:31.060 unique and the experience inside it will be unique as well. Hundred percent. 00:27:31.560 --> 00:27:37.600 What we are trying to do here in our context, in our in downtown Cairo, 00:27:37.896 --> 00:27:41.425 it's not just a room that you're having. 00:27:41.838 --> 00:27:48.260 you have stories inside, you have bedside stories you have you have all of a 00:27:48.260 --> 00:27:53.210 sudden, you have a show, you have the DJ, you have the music, you have the library. 00:27:53.210 --> 00:27:57.480 And how are you going to connect people to the neighborhood? I know are you going 00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:01.510 to have preferred maybe guides for the area? 00:28:01.510 --> 00:28:06.260 Telling you about this we had a sort of partnership with Abu Ghali Motors 00:28:06.962 --> 00:28:15.257 to have this kind of mobility service around all over Egypt or Cairo in general, yeah. And now so 00:28:15.826 --> 00:28:20.520 your driver will be your butler you will be your concierge and we are going 00:28:20.520 --> 00:28:25.760 to connect some of the tours to have like an art tour to have like a fine dining 00:28:25.760 --> 00:28:27.660 exactly to have like street food tour 00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:28.910 And the downtown tour 00:28:28.910 --> 00:28:31.440 You have a lot of things yes you can see you have. 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:36.500 But you will provide those experiences for the guests. That's what I mean. Yes, for sure. 00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:38.460 Yes, 100%. 00:28:38.460 --> 00:28:41.470 Thanks for joining me today. It would be really great if you would share the 00:28:41.470 --> 00:28:44.652 episode with friends and family, because that's how we can grow the show. 00:28:44.803 --> 00:28:49.280 Stay tuned for next week when Chirag Desai, my producer, and I sit down and 00:28:49.280 --> 00:28:51.984 look at the first half of the year. Please join us then. ``` ### My conversation with Alchemy’s Karim Mekhtigian & Mohamed Fares URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/karim-mekhtigian-mohamed-fares-alchemy/ Last updated: 2026-08-14T07:09:59.000Z SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This week, I’m sitting down with Karim Mekhtigian and Mohamed Fares, two of the visionary architects behind Cairo’s premier design firm, *Alchemy*, alongside Emy Hussein. Together, they have spent years shaping the architectural landscape in Egypt, setting new standards of quality, style and craftsmanship. In the first of two episodes, we talk about how they each came to architecture and design, and then joined forces to create a partnership that spans two decades. Our conversation took place at *Tamara Haus*, a new destination by Alchemy Experience, in the heart of Downtown Cairo. On part two next week, Karim & Fares tell me about their design philosophy, and how they built a brand that became a movement. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. ```chapters 00:00 - On this episode 01:41 - Karim’s cosmopolitan childhood 03:46 - Fares’ sporting upbringing 12:01 - Meeting of minds 17:14 - Drawing by hand vs AI 22:34 - Building Alchemy 27:38 - Lightning Round ``` ```vtt WEBVTT 00:00:00.018 --> 00:00:04.188 How have you kept your partnership? It's a marriage. You've been in a marriage 00:00:04.188 --> 00:00:06.269 for 25 years, nearly 30 years. 00:00:06.647 --> 00:00:09.948 You have to be tolerant of each other. We don't see each other much and we don't 00:00:09.948 --> 00:00:13.270 talk to each other. AI has information. 00:00:13.787 --> 00:00:14.158 Yes. 00:00:14.344 --> 00:00:15.528 But doesn't have the knowledge. 00:00:15.528 --> 00:00:21.818 The prompts that you are feeding the AI with comes with your knowledge and your background. 00:00:22.158 --> 00:00:27.138 I think at that moment, we introduced the grey color in Egypt. Egypt was all in beige. 00:00:27.138 --> 00:00:31.708 This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in 00:00:31.708 --> 00:00:35.818 more than 35 stock markets worldwide. Hey everyone, welcome back to What I Did 00:00:35.818 --> 00:00:38.685 Next from A&T Media. I'm Malak Fouad, your host. 00:00:38.818 --> 00:00:42.988 Today I'm joined by Karim Mekhtigian and Mohamed Fares, both architects who 00:00:42.988 --> 00:00:46.527 run Alchemy, one of Egypt's premier architecture firms. 00:00:46.696 --> 00:00:50.458 The interview was conducted at Tamara Haus, their latest venture under the 00:00:50.458 --> 00:00:52.443 brand name Alchemy Experience. 00:00:52.611 --> 00:00:56.825 Together, Karim and Fares have shaped the look of architecture in Egypt, 00:00:57.156 --> 00:01:02.758 shepherding in modern, clean lines where traditionally Aubusson and Opaline dominated. 00:01:03.118 --> 00:01:08.546 Today, the Alchemy name is synonymous with quality, high standards and exceptional style. 00:01:08.842 --> 00:01:12.638 I've known Karim and Fares for over 20 years and I've always watched them with 00:01:12.638 --> 00:01:16.928 admiration and curiosity as to how their style and their friendship and their 00:01:16.928 --> 00:01:18.995 partnership has evolved over the years. 00:01:19.296 --> 00:01:22.733 This interview was conducted in a mix of English and Arabic, 00:01:23.087 --> 00:01:25.566 so be sure to adjust your subtitles accordingly. 00:01:25.827 --> 00:01:29.705 Karim, I want to start with you. You're older. 00:01:30.517 --> 00:01:37.898 You come from a different, I want to say not mentality, but a different epoch, actually. 00:01:38.238 --> 00:01:41.167 Your heritage in Egypt is very different to Fares'. 00:01:41.847 --> 00:01:45.148 Tell me a little bit about your personal background. You're from an Armenian 00:01:45.148 --> 00:01:48.378 family, from a very old family, in Downtown Cairo 00:01:48.778 --> 00:01:49.758 I come from, yes, I'm born in Dhaher 00:01:52.878 --> 00:01:57.918 beside downtown, from Armenian family, but... 00:02:01.025 --> 00:02:05.345 in a neighborhood which was like really extremely cosmopolitan. There was a mix of different people. Our building had Armenians, Christians, Muslims 00:02:15.705 --> 00:02:22.505 There was a Jewish family, there was a Greek family, parts from the Armenian families, etc. 00:02:22.985 --> 00:02:25.155 It was a very big melting pot, Cairo, right? 00:02:25.165 --> 00:02:33.065 It was a melting pot. It was the end of the melting pot. Yes, more or less. Yes. But 00:02:35.365 --> 00:02:42.078 this diversity of different cultures, I think, made a lot, and it formed me. 00:02:42.362 --> 00:02:47.225 I think, you know, it makes you a tolerant person. It makes you open to the world. 00:02:47.425 --> 00:02:54.025 It makes you flexible, tolerant. You understand people easily. 00:02:54.745 --> 00:02:57.975 And your family worked in industrial lighting? 00:02:57.975 --> 00:03:04.038 No, my family, it was like we all lived together. It was like also another, 00:03:04.166 --> 00:03:07.615 I mean, my uncles used to live in the same house. My father, 00:03:07.615 --> 00:03:10.685 my mother, my grandmother, et cetera. 00:03:11.132 --> 00:03:18.005 And I had like, my father was a mechanical engineer and worked in the metal 00:03:20.125 --> 00:03:26.355 factory. And my uncle was an architect and the other one was a 00:03:26.355 --> 00:03:29.785 movie producer. So I had... 00:03:31.125 --> 00:03:32.445 You had a mix of different worlds. 00:03:32.465 --> 00:03:38.145 I had a mix and everyone was like trying to tell me to be like him. 00:03:40.701 --> 00:03:46.465 So at the end, I decided to be like no one and leave. 00:03:46.985 --> 00:03:52.215 And you, Fares, what is your childhood? What is your background in terms of 00:03:52.215 --> 00:03:55.335 the pre-alchemy, pre.. what we know of you? 00:03:55.462 --> 00:03:57.895 I grew up in a very Egyptian family. 00:03:58.696 --> 00:03:59.365 I used to go, 00:04:01.947 --> 00:04:04.945 to do sports every day. I was a water polo player. 00:04:04.945 --> 00:04:05.695 Were you? 00:04:05.695 --> 00:04:10.705 Yeah. I didn't know that. In the Ahli club. It is very hard. Yeah, yeah. I started by swimming first. 00:04:11.201 --> 00:04:17.475 And then I joined the club when I was six years old. My childhood was like... 00:04:18.096 --> 00:04:19.048 You lived in the water. 00:04:19.251 --> 00:04:22.241 Yes. I wake up in the morning at 6 a.m. 00:04:22.654 --> 00:04:29.885 My mother would prepare my breakfast every day. And then I go, train 00:04:29.885 --> 00:04:31.755 Wow, that says a lot actually. You learn to 00:04:31.755 --> 00:04:38.115 discipline. Yes. It's a lot. It teaches you the right way. It's a lot. And this was like 15 years of 00:04:38.115 --> 00:04:40.185 my life. 15 years. Then, then, 00:04:41.205 --> 00:04:47.741 I was in the national team around when I was 16 years old. I had no idea. What,Fares? Yes 00:04:47.933 --> 00:04:53.180 yes. That's a big deal. I went to High school, of course. 00:04:53.418 --> 00:04:54.735 Yeah and then everything changed 00:04:54.735 --> 00:04:58.745 Yes, I went to High school. I wanted to do, 00:04:59.865 --> 00:05:07.675 IGSE at that time. My dad told me, no. You have to go to this kind of, you know 00:05:07.675 --> 00:05:12.805 high school practice, all this kind of Egyptian things in everything and the education. 00:05:12.805 --> 00:05:13.395 High school is much harder 00:05:13.395 --> 00:05:19.395 Yeah. Much harder. After this, and then I got a very good score 00:05:19.395 --> 00:05:22.325 that could get me into medicine or engineering. 00:05:23.749 --> 00:05:29.327 And you started with medicine. No, you didn't start. My father wanted, him and brother wanted me to get into engineering. And I didn't want to get into engineering because the brother was a doctor 00:05:31.105 --> 00:05:32.653 I was like, 00:05:34.185 --> 00:05:37.697 I'm seeing him, okay, I'd like to be a doctor. 00:05:38.905 --> 00:05:44.249 I didn't go college for two months, two months, I didn't go to college. I didn't go. 00:05:44.249 --> 00:05:45.389 You got very turned off. Yes. 00:05:45.949 --> 00:05:50.189 In the mid-term of faculty of engineering, I was a very good student in the school, 00:05:50.189 --> 00:05:54.671 I was very good in everything. Academically good. I never failed. 00:05:55.182 --> 00:06:04.589 And then, in engineering college, I finished the first term, and I failed in one subject. And this was... 00:06:06.189 --> 00:06:07.369 Very depressing, of course. 00:06:07.369 --> 00:06:11.384 Very depressing. I wasn't attending. And what did your father say? 00:06:12.307 --> 00:06:16.189 No, my father... Of course. 00:06:16.189 --> 00:06:20.409 to us, we as a family, there's nothing called a not passing or a failure. 00:06:20.409 --> 00:06:26.129 Or something, it's impossible. I mean, throughout the journey, even with my father 00:06:26.129 --> 00:06:28.722 and all my siblings, we were very successful, alhamdulillah. 00:06:28.867 --> 00:06:35.889 And how did you make the change, between from the doctor, wanting to be a doctor, to moving into... 00:06:35.889 --> 00:06:38.916 I started to believe that this is God's plan. 00:06:39.212 --> 00:06:46.369 Okay. Did you have as a child an interest in architecture, in art, in creativity? 00:06:46.369 --> 00:06:49.589 Yes, art and fashion and photography. It was always there. 00:06:49.589 --> 00:06:54.868 Yes. And for you, Ya Karim, how did the spark of architecture come? 00:06:55.053 --> 00:06:57.029 I wasn't supposed to do architecture. 00:06:57.569 --> 00:07:01.445 You had lived in Paris for many years. Yes. And you went to Paris at what age? 00:07:01.886 --> 00:07:02.729 I was 17. 00:07:02.729 --> 00:07:04.369 And your family were fine with that? 00:07:04.369 --> 00:07:04.667 No. 00:07:04.893 --> 00:07:05.499 They were not? 00:07:05.499 --> 00:07:06.389 No, they were against it. 00:07:06.389 --> 00:07:07.269 You fought for that. 00:07:07.269 --> 00:07:15.529 Yes, I fought. My father threw me out and I had to go and work and to make, to find the money for my 00:07:15.529 --> 00:07:17.929 ticket. That's a big deal. And then I have done it. 00:07:18.549 --> 00:07:19.409 Wait, wait, wait, wait. 00:07:19.409 --> 00:07:19.789 This is important. 00:07:20.469 --> 00:07:21.547 This is important. 00:07:21.652 --> 00:07:25.018 What? So you left home because you wanted to leave and he didn't want you to leave. 00:07:25.198 --> 00:07:25.714 Yeah. 00:07:26.556 --> 00:07:27.595 But you still did it. 00:07:27.874 --> 00:07:32.388 I did it, yes. I was a bit rebellious person when I was a kid. 00:07:32.398 --> 00:07:34.178 But how did he accept it in the end? 00:07:34.416 --> 00:07:41.358 He accepted after 25 years. What? I mean, he wasn't convinced that he wasn't 00:07:41.358 --> 00:07:45.184 convinced. And I was like, I had no choice. I had to go and I had to prove. 00:07:45.509 --> 00:07:49.898 When I went to Paris, I didn't know one word in French. And it was like, my education was Armenian. 00:07:49.898 --> 00:07:52.458 But even when I met him after 25 years, his father wasn't convinced with what we were doing. 00:07:52.458 --> 00:07:53.363 Yes, yes. 00:07:53.619 --> 00:07:54.958 And the first time. 00:07:54.958 --> 00:08:04.958 The first time he told me, I think you have done something right, I was 45. 00:08:04.958 --> 00:08:05.298 No, Karim. 00:08:05.458 --> 00:08:06.798 Yeah, I was 45. 00:08:06.798 --> 00:08:07.218 How did that feel? 00:08:07.438 --> 00:08:08.068 I said, wow. 00:08:08.068 --> 00:08:08.932 How did that feel? 00:08:09.124 --> 00:08:13.727 Yeah, I told him, 45 years. It's been like 25 years I'm waiting for it. Wow. 00:08:14.006 --> 00:08:14.708 As your mother 00:08:14.708 --> 00:08:17.618 presumably was behind you all the way from the beginning. No, 00:08:17.618 --> 00:08:19.838 my mother was very emotional and she was trying to find.. 00:08:19.838 --> 00:08:23.617 But this is very difficult. Yeah, and you're obviously a risk-taker. 00:08:24.498 --> 00:08:28.718 you went against what they wanted, you did what you wanted. You must have had 00:08:28.718 --> 00:08:32.108 a strong belief in what you were doing and it's not easy to do 00:08:32.108 --> 00:08:36.808 something like that. I believed that, without knowing what exactly, but at that 00:08:36.808 --> 00:08:40.701 time, I believed that there is something that I have to do. I came to this world 00:08:41.165 --> 00:08:46.118 and there is something that.. I have a message or there is something, I don't know but I need to find it 00:08:46.947 --> 00:08:54.563 and I will work for it and to be able to communicate or to be able to give your message 00:08:55.898 --> 00:09:00.878 I was convinced 100% that I have to be extremely skillful in a lot of things 00:09:01.814 --> 00:09:03.448 whatever I'm doing. You know Karim 00:09:03.448 --> 00:09:09.128 though, there are so many people that we know around us in every kind of industry 00:09:09.923 --> 00:09:16.061 who follow a conventional route. They either inherit a family business or they 00:09:16.061 --> 00:09:19.819 are expected to be a doctor and they do it and they're miserable. 00:09:19.965 --> 00:09:24.361 I inherited everything from my family also. Apart from that, 00:09:24.361 --> 00:09:30.151 I was like, we were against each other and not believing in me, etc. 00:09:30.691 --> 00:09:34.918 But I inherited it. My uncle was a film producer. I learned from him a lot. 00:09:35.951 --> 00:09:42.091 I used to be in the studios. I was an extremely curious guy. 00:09:42.091 --> 00:09:45.811 And from a young age, you felt that creativity 00:09:45.811 --> 00:09:48.676 was your area. Yes, there is something big that I have to do. 00:09:49.407 --> 00:09:54.471 And my father, he was an engineer. I was going and working at his workshop, etc. 00:09:55.111 --> 00:09:59.511 I learned from him. My other uncle was an architect. I inherited a lot. 00:09:59.891 --> 00:10:05.331 I mean, without falling into the standard. 00:10:06.691 --> 00:10:12.641 I believe that everyone and I believe, not me, everyone has his own way 00:10:12.641 --> 00:10:17.021 to become here in this world, we have something, we have something, everyone has 00:10:17.021 --> 00:10:20.761 something to do and something to fulfill, etc. 00:10:20.761 --> 00:10:21.641 And everyone has a purpose 00:10:21.786 --> 00:10:27.111 And everyone has a purpose but you have to fight for it, I mean.. 00:10:27.111 --> 00:10:30.731 And when you went to Paris, how did you know what area you wanted to study? 00:10:31.231 --> 00:10:34.751 In France, you have a system when you are in the art, artistic 00:10:36.831 --> 00:10:42.650 field, they put you in a general academy, art academy. 00:10:43.062 --> 00:10:49.511 In this academy, you have to stay for two years and they give you all the basics 00:10:49.511 --> 00:10:54.701 of art, history, cinema, painting, photography, whatever. 00:10:54.701 --> 00:10:55.606 And then you specialize. 00:10:55.792 --> 00:10:59.426 So I learned, I saw, I had the choice and... 00:11:00.227 --> 00:11:05.852 Fortunately, I was accepted in a higher school, École Supérieure, 00:11:07.611 --> 00:11:12.226 which had cinema, architecture, design, and everything. 00:11:12.226 --> 00:11:16.526 When I think of the two of you, I don't just think of you as architects. 00:11:16.526 --> 00:11:19.603 I think of you as wearing many hats. 00:11:19.980 --> 00:11:25.286 Being creative doesn't narrow you into a field. You can't. You're a photographer. 00:11:25.739 --> 00:11:29.376 I've been to your exhibitions. I studied filmmaking in the New York Film Academy. 00:11:29.376 --> 00:11:33.715 And you, Karim, also, there's a creative director element to both of you. 00:11:33.924 --> 00:11:37.466 You know, at the end, you have a message. Yeah. And you have to communicate 00:11:37.466 --> 00:11:41.356 and you have to do it. And you have to know how to... 00:11:42.436 --> 00:11:44.896 You do it through photography, through architecture, through... 00:11:44.916 --> 00:11:48.518 Now, for example, we created a company which is Alchemy Experience. 00:11:48.837 --> 00:11:54.340 It's a holistic ecosystem of all what we know and all what we have done together 00:11:54.996 --> 00:11:59.386 throughout the years. So we said, okay, this is like, let's create this ecosystem, 00:11:59.386 --> 00:12:01.886 which it's the whole experience all together. 00:12:01.886 --> 00:12:07.819 Let's talk about your partnership. So you talked about Karim as being your mentor. Yeah. 00:12:09.276 --> 00:12:13.067 I love this. And I love that in your head, that's still how you think of it. 00:12:13.449 --> 00:12:14.996 Of course. I will always... 00:12:15.136 --> 00:12:16.862 So much has, you know... 00:12:17.016 --> 00:12:18.746 I don't see how it's all. 00:12:18.746 --> 00:12:19.096 What do you see? 00:12:20.776 --> 00:12:26.416 No, I don't think so that I am the mentor. No, because I also leanred a lot of things. How 00:12:26.416 --> 00:12:28.576 did you meet? How did you meet? 00:12:29.856 --> 00:12:35.456 I'll tell you. He will tell you a big chunk of the story. Surely, there are two versions of it. But anyways, 00:12:38.445 --> 00:12:45.856 After I finished my university, I was doing Masters. And then I did an 00:12:45.856 --> 00:12:52.603 article in Bait Magazine and I was doing A study on all the rooftops to be green. Okay, 00:12:54.106 --> 00:13:01.973 And Karim was.. in the same edition, Karim had come back from Paris and he was doing 00:13:02.343 --> 00:13:06.895 an article on the lighting and Alchemy and everything. So Alchemy existed? 00:13:06.895 --> 00:13:10.995 Yes, yes, Alchemy existed. I didn't know this. Alchemy Design Studio. 00:13:12.195 --> 00:13:14.962 It existed. You created the company in '98 00:13:16.355 --> 00:13:20.735 Yes And when I met Karim, a friend of ours said that Karim wants 00:13:20.735 --> 00:13:23.335 someone to help him with projects. 00:13:25.335 --> 00:13:28.204 And I met Karim, and the rest is history. 00:13:28.564 --> 00:13:29.744 Karim, your version. 00:13:30.184 --> 00:13:31.593 What's your version? 00:13:33.044 --> 00:13:37.857 No, I needed a help. I needed someone, etc. So I told this girl, 00:13:38.397 --> 00:13:40.494 do you know someone? I don't know anything. 00:13:40.494 --> 00:13:41.964 You had just come back 00:13:41.964 --> 00:13:43.064 I had just come back 00:13:43.484 --> 00:13:45.537 This was end of 2001-2002. 00:13:48.284 --> 00:13:49.664 Okay. This is when I moved to Cairo. It was exactly at the same time. 00:13:49.664 --> 00:13:53.544 And I still had my office in Paris. I used to go, 00:13:53.844 --> 00:13:55.564 do things, and then come and do things. 00:13:55.564 --> 00:13:59.744 And then I said, I need someone to help, a designer or whatever. 00:13:59.744 --> 00:14:02.604 She said, I will send you, I will send you a friend of mine. He's good. 00:14:02.604 --> 00:14:07.851 In the office at the time, we were three people. 00:14:08.467 --> 00:14:12.814 There was one secretary and one 00:14:12.824 --> 00:14:18.647 he was like designing on AutoCAD and me, that's all. 00:14:19.309 --> 00:14:24.834 So Faris came in for an interview. You were really young at the time. 00:14:24.834 --> 00:14:31.664 I met Karim, Karim was 38 or 37 years old more or less when I was like 22, 23. 00:14:31.664 --> 00:14:34.884 You were still a fresh graduate from university. 00:14:34.884 --> 00:14:39.844 Yes, so he entered and looked around, very sure of 00:14:41.432 --> 00:14:46.754 myself. There was a lamp Flipp Stark and he said, this is Flipp Stark. He 00:14:46.754 --> 00:14:53.524 has an eye, he knows. So I'm telling him what he'll do and what we do and I'm explaining 00:14:53.524 --> 00:14:56.130 and then he says, but where will I park my car? 00:14:57.117 --> 00:14:58.182 We are in the Downtown Cairo 00:14:58.182 --> 00:14:59.445 straight to the technicalities 00:15:00.062 --> 00:15:04.922 and I'm doing my Masters. I'm not free. Who's interviewing who? 00:15:06.742 --> 00:15:12.852 Who's in charge here? I actually, for me, I'm coming from France And there's 00:15:12.852 --> 00:15:20.342 no one who does an interview in that way. And I'm in my mind, I said, this is not going to work 00:15:22.662 --> 00:15:26.988 You put a line under him. So, we got done and I told him to 00:15:27.638 --> 00:15:31.422 see and let me know. The next day, he came in, all prepared and started working. 00:15:31.422 --> 00:15:33.182 No, no, no, I love it 00:15:33.742 --> 00:15:39.028 And then, I mean, we took a project. At that time, I was working with some Americans like, 00:15:39.637 --> 00:15:44.397 we didn't know if we will get the project or not, then we took it. So I said to him, we have a project big, 00:15:45.032 --> 00:15:48.977 very big, and I don't know if we will be able to do it 00:15:50.336 --> 00:15:53.691 He entered and then brought other colleagues 00:15:53.691 --> 00:15:55.381 And you grew quickly 00:15:55.381 --> 00:15:56.761 No, no, we were at the beginning, still 00:15:56.761 --> 00:15:57.601 Still 00:15:57.601 --> 00:16:06.751 At the time, the thing was that we took the project and it was a Petroleum company. 00:16:06.751 --> 00:16:10.201 Egyptian Petroleum, American Petroleum, American-Egyptian Company. We did a presentation 00:16:11.201 --> 00:16:13.811 And it was a commercial project? 00:16:13.811 --> 00:16:17.881 It's like offices Okay Headquarters, Headquarters, 6,000 meters, 00:16:17.881 --> 00:16:21.293 biggest ever project. We did at that time, 6000 meters, 00:16:21.921 --> 00:16:27.061 Huge. At that time, We didn't have computers I remember Karim 00:16:27.061 --> 00:16:30.401 I had a room And this room, I laid out the drawing board. 00:16:31.201 --> 00:16:36.141 very old school. Old school. Until now, even with the engineers, I tell them, guys 00:16:36.141 --> 00:16:42.441 if you don't have a pen next to them or paper to sketch, 00:16:42.441 --> 00:16:43.415 This doesn't work. You can't be an engineer 00:16:45.145 --> 00:16:51.542 At that time, the drawing board, I worked on a big square, 20-80 meters, 00:16:52.477 --> 00:16:56.941 And we did the presentation. Karim was working on a computer presentation for 00:16:56.941 --> 00:17:01.741 the look and feel. And I start to design the whole plans And the whole spaces 00:17:01.741 --> 00:17:04.441 on paper. And if I made a mistake 00:17:04.841 --> 00:17:07.291 I'll go again. It used to be like that 00:17:07.291 --> 00:17:08.241 I'll get another, 00:17:11.001 --> 00:17:11.591 I'll go again.Of course. I remember. 00:17:13.210 --> 00:17:17.381 And tell me Faris, why is it important today? Why is it something you still 00:17:17.381 --> 00:17:19.781 want your young people to have? 00:17:20.124 --> 00:17:25.981 Because it's not virtual. When you put the whole project in front of you... Even when you write, 00:17:26.081 --> 00:17:28.761 You memorize. Yes, it's true. When you write, you memorize. It's true. 00:17:29.081 --> 00:17:32.201 When you touch it, when you have a line, you will memorize the line. 00:17:32.201 --> 00:17:37.091 You don't see the project in a screen. That's right. You see a part of the project. That's true. 00:17:37.091 --> 00:17:40.598 Until now, Malak, any person who sends me from the engineers, 00:17:41.173 --> 00:17:46.321 he has sent me on a screen, on a computer or on a phone, I will do a design 00:17:46.321 --> 00:17:48.034 session, we are going to print 00:17:48.870 --> 00:17:54.576 And I will take my notes on the design. This is very, very important. 00:17:54.596 --> 00:17:57.810 It's very important. Because you can't see the whole picture otherwise. 00:17:57.943 --> 00:18:04.916 Yes, I need to feel the space. I need to draw the line. I need to do my sketch. I need to feel this. 00:18:04.916 --> 00:18:10.168 I always mention now AI in all the interviews, regardless of industry. Is that affecting you? 00:18:10.313 --> 00:18:11.656 No, we're not. No, no, no. 00:18:11.656 --> 00:18:12.676 It's not affecting your work. 00:18:13.096 --> 00:18:15.891 It's a tool that makes things faster. 00:18:16.013 --> 00:18:16.449 That's it? 00:18:17.376 --> 00:18:17.760 That's it. 00:18:17.998 --> 00:18:19.136 But you're still drawing with pen and paper. 00:18:21.396 --> 00:18:24.756 Of course. But there are certain elements that you can visualize it. 00:18:24.856 --> 00:18:31.046 AI has information but doesn't have the knowledge. And you have 00:18:31.046 --> 00:18:31.456 to know how to 00:18:31.456 --> 00:18:35.396 use it. As an architect or as a designer, You should have the knowledge And you 00:18:35.396 --> 00:18:38.306 have the knowledge, So you will tell AI how 00:18:38.306 --> 00:18:43.916 to think. We won't be able to tell AI If you don't have the knowledge. The prompts 00:18:43.916 --> 00:18:49.636 that you are feeding the AI with comes with your knowledge and your background. 00:18:49.636 --> 00:18:52.816 When we come back after the break, Karim and Fares talked to me about how their 00:18:52.816 --> 00:18:54.992 partnership began over 25 years ago. 00:18:55.381 --> 00:18:59.686 This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investment 00:18:59.686 --> 00:19:04.056 across more than 35 stock markets worldwide. With EFG Hermes One, 00:19:04.056 --> 00:19:09.859 you can buy and sell orders in real time for immediate execution across multiple global markets. 00:19:10.062 --> 00:19:13.716 You can keep track of your favorite stocks by creating and customizing multiple 00:19:13.716 --> 00:19:17.796 watch lists and make informed investment decisions with their advanced technical 00:19:17.796 --> 00:19:21.336 analysis tools to study market trends and investor behavior. 00:19:21.336 --> 00:19:25.956 So supercharge your financial journey and download the EFG Hermes One app on 00:19:25.956 --> 00:19:29.773 the Apple App Store and on Google Play and start investing today. 00:19:29.913 --> 00:19:31.242 Let's go back to your partnership. 00:19:31.796 --> 00:19:35.793 How, the early years, how did you then 00:19:37.453 --> 00:19:41.322 set up the business when you were working A few years together? At the beginning 00:19:41.322 --> 00:19:43.352 You worked on the same projects I'm assuming 00:19:43.352 --> 00:19:49.714 Yeah, yeah. But I want to tell you something just for a minute. Sure Go ahead, 00:19:51.339 --> 00:19:56.112 After we finished the big project that we did and we charged around.. I said, Karim We're 00:19:56.112 --> 00:19:58.456 gonna charge this amount of money. Karim told me, what? how will we say that? 00:19:59.282 --> 00:20:05.582 He thought it was too much. It was too much. And I don't want to say the amount but 00:20:05.582 --> 00:20:10.106 it was way, way too much And I told you Karim We don't have anything to lose 00:20:10.774 --> 00:20:12.822 we worked hard and we will do the project. 00:20:14.228 --> 00:20:19.462 And this is Where we started Alchemy. After this budget what we got from 00:20:19.462 --> 00:20:23.762 this project, We started. Karim suddenly, after 3 days, He said, Faris There's a place 00:20:23.762 --> 00:20:27.322 in Ma'ady. It's a showroom, 120 square meter. 00:20:27.322 --> 00:20:28.352 It was a showroom with products 00:20:28.352 --> 00:20:32.642 So Karim was like, do we take it? I said, Yes, Karim, we'll take it. He said, Faris we pay here 00:20:32.642 --> 00:20:34.402 400 pounds, 400 pounds in Downtown 00:20:36.782 --> 00:20:38.862 He's the risk-taker, not you. 00:20:39.382 --> 00:20:40.242 Fares is the risk 00:20:42.762 --> 00:20:43.462 taker. 00:20:43.462 --> 00:20:45.772 I mean, he wanted to go ahead. 00:20:45.772 --> 00:20:48.662 Yes, he has this. 00:20:48.662 --> 00:20:48.962 He can be more careful 00:20:48.962 --> 00:20:50.132 You're more impatient. 00:20:50.132 --> 00:20:57.044 I have the material, for example. And I have the idea. And I feel the idea. 00:20:57.660 --> 00:21:02.712 Sometimes the idea, I believe it will work. Yes. But if he doesn't, 00:21:02.712 --> 00:21:04.512 if he's not here, it doesn't work. 00:21:04.512 --> 00:21:07.242 Maybe because you overthink it. And you're cautious. He has this thing, it's courageous. 00:21:11.722 --> 00:21:16.692 He's thinking what do we have to lose, right,Faris? You can try, we 00:21:16.692 --> 00:21:20.622 have nothing to lose. You're young. This is the difference between the two. 00:21:21.782 --> 00:21:23.632 I can think about it more than once 00:21:23.632 --> 00:21:29.592 Karim always tells me, when you grow up and become my age 00:21:29.592 --> 00:21:34.468 Everytime, this is the point that I was able to know things, 00:21:35.495 --> 00:21:40.969 before I reached it because of his experience, this partnership. The yin and yang. 00:21:40.969 --> 00:21:45.189 You have the different strengths come from age too 00:21:45.189 --> 00:21:49.816 which is saying. After we did this project and we charged this project, 00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:53.456 We did the story. Karim said we'll do this, I said, yes, we'll do this, 00:21:54.629 --> 00:21:57.789 he said, we'll do the showroom, I said yes, 00:21:57.789 --> 00:22:02.729 let's do it and then we became partners. This is 2003. This is 2003. This is when. 00:22:02.729 --> 00:22:08.357 We all met, 2003 Yes, yes, yes. And then when you began at this stage, 00:22:09.228 --> 00:22:13.459 you were still working on similar projects, same projects, or you both began to branch out? 00:22:13.779 --> 00:22:17.279 I mean, there were a lot of projects that we did together. Yes, 00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:21.289 of course. But there were projects that were, and I'm busy 00:22:21.289 --> 00:22:24.499 and he's a busy. Well, you can take this and I do this, so we don't have 00:22:24.499 --> 00:22:29.109 to be in the same project. But this point is very important in our lives, because, 00:22:31.424 --> 00:22:34.839 I remember this very well. Dates, specific dates 00:22:35.419 --> 00:22:42.499 23/5/2003, it was the opening night of the High Heels. Everyone found out about Alchemy 00:22:42.499 --> 00:22:47.272 on the opening night of High Heels, 28/5/2003 was the opening of Alchemy 00:22:48.921 --> 00:22:52.567 All the people who were in the opening of High Heels, came to Alchemy. 00:22:55.022 --> 00:22:56.992 In 6th street, where no one used to visit 00:22:57.422 --> 00:23:01.222 The place was not known 00:23:01.222 --> 00:23:03.122 People said I'm crazy for choosing this place 00:23:04.242 --> 00:23:05.072 And how do you get there and which street is it? 00:23:05.072 --> 00:23:09.262 Yes, yes, yes. When the people entered and saw the 00:23:09.262 --> 00:23:14.732 design of the place I think at that moment, we introduced the grey color in Egypt 00:23:14.732 --> 00:23:15.590 Egypt was all in beige. 00:23:15.798 --> 00:23:20.902 You know that? I want to say something. That color, I think about Karim when it comes to this color 00:23:20.902 --> 00:23:27.824 like I'm in a Milano loft And it's Karim. This is what I think of 00:23:28.942 --> 00:23:31.262 I really remember all the people. It's brownish grey 00:23:33.742 --> 00:23:37.687 This color is Karim, not you, but Karim 00:23:37.884 --> 00:23:45.332 But actually when people came to Alchemy, Egypt is all beige. In general, Architecture, everything is beige. 00:23:45.462 --> 00:23:50.348 and Aubusson and all the shapes. And suddenly... 00:23:51.262 --> 00:23:52.502 Anyways, this was the start, 00:23:54.655 --> 00:23:56.774 Next milestone, when we did the first home in Hacienda. Yes. 00:23:57.064 --> 00:23:59.682 This was a big spotlight on you. 00:23:59.682 --> 00:24:07.592 This was in 2004 and then we started to take over. A lot of projects, a lot of 00:24:07.592 --> 00:24:09.672 residential projects, offices. 00:24:10.056 --> 00:24:14.432 Retail Karim, do you prefer residential or commercial work to work on? 00:24:14.432 --> 00:24:20.422 It's totally different. I prefer, I choose residential with the client. 00:24:20.422 --> 00:24:21.952 I have to like them. 00:24:21.952 --> 00:24:25.382 I was about to say that. Because there are clients.. 00:24:26.262 --> 00:24:31.952 Residential is very difficult because it's not...you are doing a space For other 00:24:31.952 --> 00:24:37.889 people. They are going to live in it. And it's not you who's going to live in it. So you cannot also 00:24:39.062 --> 00:24:45.472 impose everything that you like. You have to understand very 00:24:45.472 --> 00:24:48.162 well these people, how they live, what's their lifestyle, 00:24:48.942 --> 00:24:50.266 and then in a house, 00:24:51.444 --> 00:24:57.162 people are sitting on the couch for hours, and they can look for details for 00:24:57.777 --> 00:24:59.983 hours, and they see every single thing. 00:25:00.355 --> 00:25:02.372 In a commercial project, it's not like that. It's not like that. 00:25:02.432 --> 00:25:06.672 It's like more experience. And it's a quicker flow. It's a quick flow, etc. 00:25:07.072 --> 00:25:12.202 And then it's a faster project. Yes. So, of course, we prefer to have commercial. 00:25:12.202 --> 00:25:14.122 And you, Faris, do you have a preference? 00:25:14.122 --> 00:25:15.052 Of course, commercial. 00:25:15.052 --> 00:25:16.432 Commercial, huh? Of course, commercial. 00:25:16.432 --> 00:25:19.362 All the architects I ask this question to tell me the same thing. 00:25:19.362 --> 00:25:21.742 I think it's the speed of the project. Yeah, the speed. 00:25:21.742 --> 00:25:24.392 And you can create a lot of things within a commercial project. 00:25:24.592 --> 00:25:25.172 You get more of a carte blanche. 00:25:25.172 --> 00:25:29.292 And then you can go more crazy with commercial projects. In a restaurant, 00:25:29.292 --> 00:25:30.972 in a club, in a public area. 00:25:31.092 --> 00:25:33.837 People are more risky. You can go. You are more free. 00:25:34.672 --> 00:25:39.601 The other one is more clinical. It's like medical. 00:25:40.112 --> 00:25:43.508 How have you kept your relationship? How have you kept your partnership? 00:25:44.492 --> 00:25:48.204 It's a marriage. You've been in a marriage for 25 years, nearly 30 years. 00:25:48.657 --> 00:25:52.142 You have to be tolerant of each other. We don't see each other much And we don't 00:25:52.142 --> 00:25:55.882 talk. We meet outside. You travel 00:25:55.882 --> 00:25:57.672 together better. 00:25:57.672 --> 00:26:03.047 No, I'll tell you something. It's not easy. I learned, I am different now from who I was a year ago 00:26:05.362 --> 00:26:11.182 different from who I was twenty years ago 00:26:11.182 --> 00:26:12.939 And I realized just how much a person can learn, I made many mistakes, I made mistakes when it came to him [Karim] 00:26:15.982 --> 00:26:22.192 Not because of bad intention. It's because of I started to experience and to 00:26:22.192 --> 00:26:25.062 learn more about life. You know what I mean? 00:26:26.173 --> 00:26:33.615 But in the end when we knew to set the tone, We knew that, 00:26:34.762 --> 00:26:37.591 area where I need his consult on, 00:26:38.271 --> 00:26:42.042 where I need to agree with him on and areas where he agrees with me 00:26:42.042 --> 00:26:42.735 because he'll come and say, 00:26:43.217 --> 00:26:46.082 refer to Fares on this, not me 00:26:46.082 --> 00:26:51.422 Faris, he will take this. He will handle this. Of course, there were ups and downs 00:26:51.422 --> 00:26:54.122 There was a lot and a lot of problems. 00:26:57.382 --> 00:27:02.772 It's a marriage. There are things, I don't know, 00:27:02.772 --> 00:27:05.712 I feel it's my job to do it. And there are things he knows how to do it. We compliment each other 00:27:05.712 --> 00:27:08.942 For the company's sake 00:27:09.582 --> 00:27:16.512 But for example, is one of you more financially savvy? Is one of you more organizationally 00:27:16.512 --> 00:27:19.022 savvy? Or is it not important? No, 00:27:19.022 --> 00:27:23.932 no, Karim, of course, he has the vision. Sometimes he consults me and tells me, Faris 00:27:23.932 --> 00:27:30.582 we want to create this. Karim always when he has this idea, this idea, like he was saying, 00:27:31.465 --> 00:27:35.422 it will be done like.. I have the vision but Fares has to be a part of the it to believe it 00:27:35.422 --> 00:27:38.382 it And then we will all push together. 00:27:39.684 --> 00:27:42.652 We're going to do a lightning round. I don't know if you've watched episodes 00:27:42.652 --> 00:27:44.636 recently But I do this thing at the end 00:27:45.380 --> 00:27:49.932 where I ask questions. Don't overthink it. Just tell me what you think. Give me 00:27:49.932 --> 00:27:55.480 your answer. If you had 25 hours in a day, what would you do with your extra hour? 00:28:06.428 --> 00:28:08.414 Play with my toys 00:28:08.414 --> 00:28:10.515 with your toys, okay. 00:28:11.084 --> 00:28:13.278 Faris? I think I will meditate. 00:28:13.818 --> 00:28:16.764 Really? Yeah. Is that a new thing for you? Yes. 00:28:16.764 --> 00:28:17.664 I want, I want to 00:28:17.664 --> 00:28:23.334 Oh, you haven't started yet? No. Okay, I'll ask you the next one. Working alone or teamwork? 00:28:23.634 --> 00:28:27.434 Teamwork, of course. I love teamwork but I start with working alone 00:28:27.434 --> 00:28:32.005 You start being alone and then you add the team? Yeah. Minimalist or maximalist? 00:28:32.237 --> 00:28:32.998 Maximalist. 00:28:33.260 --> 00:28:34.454 Karim, the opposite, of course. 00:28:34.554 --> 00:28:35.514 No, not the 00:28:37.654 --> 00:28:37.694 opposite 00:28:37.694 --> 00:28:38.251 No, not the opposite. 00:28:38.919 --> 00:28:40.475 That's not maximalist either. 00:28:40.939 --> 00:28:42.864 What is maximalist, Yanni? 00:28:42.864 --> 00:28:49.254 Maximalist is where there's not a corner left empty, where every wall has something on it. 00:28:49.814 --> 00:28:54.150 I love this. You love that? I love this because this can create memory. 00:28:54.463 --> 00:28:58.893 Yeah, but you don't see that if you don't have the empty wall. 00:28:59.026 --> 00:29:00.756 So there has to be some empty. 00:29:00.860 --> 00:29:01.377 Yes. 00:29:01.522 --> 00:29:04.552 There must be. Yeah. The negative space is the most important. 00:29:04.878 --> 00:29:07.519 Yeah. Homebody or party animal? 00:29:07.977 --> 00:29:12.184 Party animal, of course. But I'm stuck at home. 00:29:12.184 --> 00:29:13.243 More than you want to be. 00:29:13.446 --> 00:29:13.939 Yeah. 00:29:14.253 --> 00:29:16.514 But you like to be with people. 00:29:17.234 --> 00:29:20.394 I can't. It's fine. Why? You're still young. 00:29:21.114 --> 00:29:23.697 Party animal, but I like to be with people. 00:29:23.825 --> 00:29:26.154 You like to be with people. Yeah, of course. So you're the same on this one. 00:29:26.294 --> 00:29:31.998 Okay. Okay, the next couple of questions are about the bigger picture. 00:29:32.144 --> 00:29:35.296 Looking ahead, what is something you're excited about? 00:29:35.458 --> 00:29:38.297 Launching Tamara Haus, of course. 00:29:40.456 --> 00:29:46.654 Because after all four years of work, I'm very excited about it. 00:29:47.634 --> 00:29:51.444 For me, it was like more serious question. good. Very more deep. 00:29:51.444 --> 00:29:53.145 Go ahead, give us a deep one. 00:29:53.145 --> 00:29:55.862 I'm excited about to... 00:29:57.417 --> 00:30:01.556 to be happy, to love, to find more beauty. 00:30:02.735 --> 00:30:07.350 Whatever, through Tamara, through Andrea, through whatever. 00:30:07.471 --> 00:30:11.291 Also looking ahead, what are you most concerned about? What do you think are 00:30:11.291 --> 00:30:12.545 challenges that are coming? 00:30:12.818 --> 00:30:13.462 Humanity. 00:30:15.569 --> 00:30:18.961 We're under threat. Faris, what do you think? 00:30:19.541 --> 00:30:23.971 I think that the world is headed to something. 00:30:24.001 --> 00:30:31.109 It's more of digital, no memories, no something real. 00:30:31.847 --> 00:30:38.174 So this is why every single aspect through design, art and fashion, 00:30:38.505 --> 00:30:42.782 getting back to nostalgic ways, back to the roots. 00:30:43.032 --> 00:30:46.351 So a bit of an analog experience is what's needed, right? 00:30:46.351 --> 00:30:54.049 Even when you see now the whole hype of listening bars and the vinyl bars, 00:30:54.531 --> 00:31:00.281 you know, because the new generation, they didn't experience even the cassette or the CD. 00:31:01.061 --> 00:31:03.241 You know, it's so funny you say that. We were in Japan at Christmas. 00:31:03.241 --> 00:31:04.061 There's a lot of... 00:31:04.461 --> 00:31:09.671 A lot. And Ali, our son, is into DJing. All he wanted to do was go to vinyl 00:31:09.671 --> 00:31:14.971 bars and pull records off a shelf, look at them and play them. 00:31:14.971 --> 00:31:18.901 By the way, we're going to have a bar in the basement. 00:31:18.901 --> 00:31:24.601 It's an amazing thing to have. If you had to choose another profession, Karim, what would it be? 00:31:26.841 --> 00:31:28.191 Cello player. 00:31:28.191 --> 00:31:29.959 Wow. Do you play? 00:31:30.075 --> 00:31:30.273 No. 00:31:30.458 --> 00:31:33.321 Not at all? Not at all. But the cello specifically, you like the sound of it? 00:31:33.321 --> 00:31:34.081 Yeah, I love it. 00:31:34.081 --> 00:31:36.181 Yeah, it's very nice. And you, Fares? 00:31:36.521 --> 00:31:38.044 Movie-making, film-making. 00:31:38.985 --> 00:31:40.841 Director. From what angle? As a director? 00:31:40.841 --> 00:31:41.441 As a director. 00:31:41.441 --> 00:31:46.038 Not as a writer? No. What's your favorite activity? Walking one hour a day 00:31:47.521 --> 00:31:50.885 Walking one hour a day Of course. And now I started to play tennis. 00:31:51.227 --> 00:31:52.141 I love tennis 00:31:52.141 --> 00:31:55.361 Yes, amazing. Not paddle, tennis. No, no tennis. 00:31:56.161 --> 00:31:56.742 And you Karim? 00:31:57.897 --> 00:31:59.478 And I started gym, 00:32:00.538 --> 00:32:01.958 But it sounds like you hate it. 00:32:03.098 --> 00:32:07.188 I used to hate it, yes, but now I can't live without it. You got into it. Yeah, yeah. 00:32:07.318 --> 00:32:10.808 Okay, I'm going to say the final thing, and you end the sentence, 00:32:10.808 --> 00:32:13.762 each one of you. Karim, I get joy from? 00:32:14.798 --> 00:32:15.144 Beauty. 00:32:15.417 --> 00:32:16.989 Faris, I get joy from 00:32:17.146 --> 00:32:18.289 Spending time with people. 00:32:18.997 --> 00:32:23.485 We'll continue the conversation next week with Karim Mekhtigian and Mohamed Fares. 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:28.168 In that episode, we'll look more into their design influences and what they're 00:32:28.168 --> 00:32:31.308 trying to do with Alchemy experience. Thanks for joining me today. 00:32:31.308 --> 00:32:35.646 I'm Malak Fouad, and this episode was produced by Chirag Desai. See you next week. ``` ### Encore: Ramy Adeeb URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-ramy-adeeb/ Last updated: 2026-07-31T10:04:34.000Z Ramy Adeeb, founder & managing partner of 1984 Ventures, is back for an *Encore* episode to talk about what he’s been upto [since 2023](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/ramy-adeeb/). He talks about why he’s excited about AI in legacy sectors but worried about unemployment. He also takes on our signature lightning round. This episode is part of *Encore*, where I check-in with some of your favourite WIDN alumni. We’ll continue this segment with more of the show’s alumni, so stay tuned. ### Dina H. Sherif on entrepreneurship as a national competitiveness strategy URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/dina-h-sherif-on-entrepreneurship-as-a-national-competitiveness-strategy/ Last updated: 2026-07-31T10:05:00.000Z SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) We’re continuing my conversation with Dina H. Sherif, talking about the shift from aid to agency, AI and regulation, and entrepreneurship as a national competitiveness strategy. Dina has served as the Executive Director of the MIT Kuo Sharper Center for Prosperity and Entrepreneurship since 2019\. You can catch the first part of our conversation [here](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-conversation-with-dina-h-sherif/). SPONSOR ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/02/AZ-Website-Logo--Transparent-.png) On the episode, Malak is wearing Azza Fahmy’s [Lotus Choker](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/lotus%5Fchoker?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Lotus+Choker&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif), [Lotus Bouquet Cuff](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/lotus%5Fbouquet%5Fcuff?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Lotus+Bouquet+Cuff&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif), [Love Tribal Ring](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/love-tribal-ring?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Love+Tribal+Ring&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif) and the [Lotus Bouquet Earrings](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/lotus%5Fbouquet%5Fearrings?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Lotus+Bouquet+Earrings&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif). Dina is wearing [Nizar Qabbani Necklace](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/nizar-qabbani-necklace?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Nizar+Qabbani+Necklace&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif), [Bouquet of Blessings Earrings](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/bouquet-of-blessings-earrings-fesg25002?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Bouquet+of+Blessings+Earrings&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif) and the [Filigree Kaf Ring](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/filigree-kaf-ring?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Filigree+Kaf+Ring&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif). If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. I’ll be back next week with an *Encore* episode with founder of 1984 Ventures, Ramy Adeeb on everything he’s been up to since 2023. ### My conversation with Dina H. Sherif URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-conversation-with-dina-h-sherif/ Last updated: 2026-08-14T07:37:29.000Z SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I’m joined by Dina H. Sherif about entrepreneurship and ecosystem building in growth markets. Dina has served as the Executive Director of the MIT Kuo Sharper Center for Prosperity and Entrepreneurship since 2019\. She also talks about her own entrepreneurship journey with *Ahead of the Curve*, and her personal experiences with loss. SPONSOR ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/02/AZ-Website-Logo--Transparent-.png) On the episode, Malak is wearing Azza Fahmy’s [Lotus Choker](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/lotus%5Fchoker?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Lotus+Choker&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif), [Lotus Bouquet Cuff](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/lotus%5Fbouquet%5Fcuff?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Lotus+Bouquet+Cuff&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif), [Love Tribal Ring](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/love-tribal-ring?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Love+Tribal+Ring&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif) and the [Lotus Bouquet Earrings](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/lotus%5Fbouquet%5Fearrings?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Lotus+Bouquet+Earrings&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif). Dina is wearing [Nizar Qabbani Necklace](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/nizar-qabbani-necklace?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Nizar+Qabbani+Necklace&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif), [Bouquet of Blessings Earrings](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/bouquet-of-blessings-earrings-fesg25002?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Bouquet+of+Blessings+Earrings&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif) and the [Filigree Kaf Ring](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/filigree-kaf-ring?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=Filigree+Kaf+Ring&%5Fss=e&%5Fv=1.0&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FDina%5FSherif). We’ll continue the conversation in Part 2 about the shift from aid to agency, AI and entrepreneurship as a national competitiveness strategy. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. ### ‘What’s Next?’: my panel from The Shift 2026 URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/whats-next-my-ai-panel-from-the-shift-2026/ Last updated: 2026-08-21T06:07:38.000Z I recently moderated a panel about how AI is affecting Egypt and the region across fintech, media, telecom, and venture capital. My panelists was made up of a number of the show's alumni including [Ahmed Alfi](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-ahmed-alfi/) (Chairman, Sawari Ventures), [Amy Mowafi](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-with-media-powerhouse-amy-mowafi/) (Co-founder & CEO, MO4 Network), [Mounir Nakhla](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/mounir-nakhla/) (Founder & CEO, MNT Halan) and [Karima El-Hakim](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/karima-el-hakim/) (Partner for Africa, Plug and Play Tech Center), and Head of Cloud Software and Services for Ericsson North Middle East, Amer Sakkijha. This panel was part of our partnership with *The Shift from e&*, powered by The Narrative Summit. The event was a prelude to the annual Narrative Summit's gathering in Soma Bay in October. ```vtt WEBVTT 00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:03.740 Hi, I'm Malak Fouad, and welcome again to What I Did Next. A couple of weeks 00:00:03.740 --> 00:00:07.210 ago, we partnered with the amazing team behind the Summit 2026. 00:00:07.210 --> 00:00:11.760 Powered by the Narrative Summit and e&, this event was a prelude to the larger 00:00:11.760 --> 00:00:15.110 gathering that the Narrative Summit will be hosting in October in Soma Bay. 00:00:15.110 --> 00:00:18.570 This event was important because it brought together all the most important 00:00:18.570 --> 00:00:24.080 companies in Egypt and beyond under one roof to look at how AI is impacting 00:00:24.080 --> 00:00:29.090 and will continue to impact the country and the region. How is it being viewed? How is it being used? 00:00:29.260 --> 00:00:33.260 Who's scared and who's excited about this new tech? As part of my involvement 00:00:33.260 --> 00:00:36.940 at the summit, I moderated one of the panels, and that brought together some 00:00:36.940 --> 00:00:41.600 of the alumni from the show, some of the most interesting people we've had on what I did next so far. 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:46.070 Our discussion was extremely vibrant and seemed to raise as many questions as it answered. 00:00:46.380 --> 00:00:49.650 Now, I know that AI means different things to different people. 00:00:49.820 --> 00:00:53.240 For some, it's like the next frontier in human evolution. 00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:57.910 For others, it's the end of the species as we know it. I am... 00:00:58.860 --> 00:01:02.560 And Ahmed will know this, I kind of fall in the second bracket. 00:01:03.090 --> 00:01:08.920 I'm a skeptic. And I don't think many people in this room are skeptics. 00:01:10.260 --> 00:01:14.340 But I'm willing to hear and have my opinions changed. 00:01:16.260 --> 00:01:21.480 We know, of course, the main leader in the field right now is Anthropic. 00:01:22.010 --> 00:01:27.770 And Dario Amodai has a bit of a schizophrenic relationship with AI. 00:01:28.210 --> 00:01:32.110 On the one hand, he thinks it's the most amazing thing and it's going to do 00:01:32.110 --> 00:01:33.850 incredible things for humanity. 00:01:34.180 --> 00:01:36.960 And on the other hand, he says it's going to end humanity. 00:01:37.330 --> 00:01:42.280 So when someone like him is uncertain, I think for the rest of us, 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:46.780 it's also very complicated and difficult to grasp. 00:01:48.370 --> 00:01:52.050 I think the key is we just don't know what's going to come and we don't know 00:01:52.050 --> 00:01:53.430 how things are going to evolve. 00:01:54.540 --> 00:01:58.370 We can speculate, but I think it's difficult to tell. 00:02:00.150 --> 00:02:04.870 I know the panel today are going to shed light on the big question, 00:02:04.870 --> 00:02:08.170 but from different perspectives. We have a lot of different industries present. 00:02:08.790 --> 00:02:14.950 Of course, Ahmed is an investor on a mega scale in Egypt and the Middle East. 00:02:15.370 --> 00:02:19.890 We have the media represented by Amy wearing different hats in the media. 00:02:20.050 --> 00:02:22.220 So that's going to be interesting to hear from Amy. 00:02:22.710 --> 00:02:30.310 Of course, Mounir with his unicorn, a very local business that has now gone global. 00:02:32.460 --> 00:02:33.780 We need a little thing on your head. 00:02:35.700 --> 00:02:38.890 So, Amer, of course, representative of the telecom industry, 00:02:39.760 --> 00:02:45.950 very glad to have his perspective, and Karima, our VC leading light, 00:02:47.220 --> 00:02:52.390 with a very interesting two-week trip from the U.S. 00:02:52.390 --> 00:02:55.870 With some mega insights. I'm sure we're going to hear a lot about that today. 00:02:57.100 --> 00:03:00.710 I'm going to direct one question per panelist as a starting point. 00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:04.790 And then if we have some time afterwards, we're going to do a bit more of a general discussion. 00:03:05.480 --> 00:03:09.740 I'm going to begin with Ahmed. So I know, Ahmed, that you like the look of health 00:03:09.740 --> 00:03:15.550 care, robotics, AI diagnostics, and personalized education. 00:03:16.740 --> 00:03:20.640 It's already proven to be a game changer, AI, in all of these areas. 00:03:21.230 --> 00:03:25.490 As an investor, what are the criteria you look for when you're investing? 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:36.930 Interesting. The most important thing I would say is the exact opposite of what 00:03:36.930 --> 00:03:38.070 my panel said this morning. 00:03:38.500 --> 00:03:40.270 Sherif, stability. 00:03:41.150 --> 00:03:45.680 Okay. Sherif's looking for stability and that is the right thing to look for for infrastructure. 00:03:46.660 --> 00:03:51.230 For us, we're looking for volatility. We're looking for alpha because if the 00:03:51.230 --> 00:03:55.910 result is certain, there's not really much to invest in as a VC, right? 00:03:55.910 --> 00:04:01.310 Everybody's going to the same place so you're looking for breadth and uncertainty 00:04:01.310 --> 00:04:04.180 as much as possible and you're looking for a team, 00:04:06.350 --> 00:04:11.660 this is the tricky part and i don't want to mean it as a criticism but the biggest problem with, 00:04:12.540 --> 00:04:16.090 engineering heavy teams which is kind of the things i really like because i 00:04:16.090 --> 00:04:22.800 like the geeky stuff is they fall in love with their tech and the model not 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:24.660 fall in love with the product and the customer, 00:04:25.780 --> 00:04:34.540 okay so that's the second part is having a team that is focused on the product and the customer um. 00:04:37.550 --> 00:04:43.890 And that we've done the analysis. It's when I was younger, I used to think of, 00:04:43.890 --> 00:04:46.290 you know, one plus me is three and I'm going to make the difference. 00:04:46.780 --> 00:04:52.770 And come to learn that the marginal difference that we can add is minimal. 00:04:53.060 --> 00:04:55.940 It has to be the team has to be in what they do. 00:04:56.450 --> 00:05:00.490 Right. And on occasion, we can amp that up. 00:05:02.960 --> 00:05:09.070 Probably the the last thing is do they have a clear goal of where they're going, 00:05:10.610 --> 00:05:13.950 and if they do and the problem they're trying to solve that's great, 00:05:15.820 --> 00:05:20.360 the ones where you invest in a technology which i am currently in the process 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:23.310 of having done and you're trying to take it to the market, 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:30.210 you need to transition from tech to product right very difficult and lastly 00:05:30.210 --> 00:05:32.940 i fall in love with like really deep tech geeky things, 00:05:33.960 --> 00:05:40.710 and the cycle of development can be longer than my fund life which makes for 00:05:41.070 --> 00:05:46.250 a difficult investment decision because some of these semiconductors take years to develop so. 00:05:46.730 --> 00:05:51.270 That's exactly what i was going to move on to actually and ask you whether because 00:05:51.270 --> 00:05:59.010 i because ai is moving so fast and um the the investments that you make, 00:05:59.010 --> 00:06:01.610 are they much more short-term in outlook? 00:06:02.140 --> 00:06:05.350 Because I'm assuming you're not going to be looking at a 10-year window. 00:06:05.350 --> 00:06:08.710 You're looking at a two to three years, and then you're out, 00:06:08.710 --> 00:06:10.570 or then you're rethinking the investment. 00:06:13.540 --> 00:06:16.330 AI is a tool. There's still going to be projects that are going to take 5, 00:06:16.330 --> 00:06:18.730 10 years, no matter how much AI happens. 00:06:19.220 --> 00:06:23.080 I mentioned earlier today the idea of distributed AIs and how people are creating 00:06:23.080 --> 00:06:27.390 kind of, you know, rogue alternate networks to create AIs. 00:06:29.060 --> 00:06:34.280 So I'm not 100% sold on this super cycle. 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:38.290 I will tell you one of the best things an AI can do is very similar to what 00:06:38.290 --> 00:06:41.200 I do to help people. I tell them what not to do. 00:06:42.290 --> 00:06:46.390 Okay? And most people rarely ask AI, what should I not do? 00:06:46.960 --> 00:06:50.160 You ask AI, what should I do? And AI is the best complementer. 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:51.930 Its job is to make you feel good about yourself. 00:06:52.690 --> 00:06:59.480 Okay? I mean, anybody that's interactive with AI, you leave at the end thinking you're a genius, right? 00:06:59.690 --> 00:07:05.000 I'm smarter than the AI. It told me how smart I am and how right and how I corrected the AI, right? 00:07:05.570 --> 00:07:09.080 Talk to the AI the other way, okay? What can go wrong here? 00:07:09.650 --> 00:07:13.910 What is the mistake? How did this company die five years from now? 00:07:14.270 --> 00:07:17.830 How did this project blow up? What did I mess up in the process? 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:20.770 Probably the best use of AI that nobody's taking advantage of. 00:07:21.170 --> 00:07:23.640 Yeah. So you're doing the counterintuitive thing. 00:07:23.890 --> 00:07:24.310 It's kind of, 00:07:27.690 --> 00:07:29.900 like, you know, when something dies, you do a postmortem wrap-up. 00:07:30.280 --> 00:07:33.870 This is a pre-mortem, right? Before it dies, right? 00:07:34.740 --> 00:07:38.230 But seriously, it's really a good thing to do. Do the analysis of what's going 00:07:38.230 --> 00:07:40.210 to kill this, what's going to make it go wrong. 00:07:40.210 --> 00:07:45.190 Yeah. Thanks, Ahmed. Mounir, I want to jump to you next, please. 00:07:45.870 --> 00:07:47.620 Your business is a fintech. 00:07:50.010 --> 00:07:53.840 How have you been incorporating AI, specifically in the Egyptian market, 00:07:54.200 --> 00:07:57.580 and how do you see the next few years moving for you? 00:07:59.390 --> 00:08:04.660 I'll start by saying I'm not at all skeptical about AI. It's real. 00:08:06.400 --> 00:08:08.780 I have the luxury to be skeptical. You don't. 00:08:09.640 --> 00:08:15.180 First-hand experiencing it, it's very, very powerful and it's very, very disruptive. 00:08:15.860 --> 00:08:23.480 And it's impacting organization structures and it's impacting how people are doing things. 00:08:23.830 --> 00:08:26.870 And it's impacting dynamic within teams. 00:08:27.820 --> 00:08:30.410 And I always thought, about dependency. 00:08:32.860 --> 00:08:38.850 Ages ago, I kept on telling my driver, you have to use Google Maps. 00:08:39.370 --> 00:08:45.250 No way. I know so much more than Google Maps. Google Maps, eh. 00:08:45.520 --> 00:08:47.550 And I know every street in Egypt. 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:55.890 Now, every time I ride a car, through trial and error, he realized that he needs to rely on Google Maps. 00:08:57.060 --> 00:09:03.340 Take this to the power of 10. In our company today, we had very, 00:09:03.340 --> 00:09:09.030 very senior management that were responsible of very complex decisions. 00:09:09.460 --> 00:09:11.680 Decisions like risk management. 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:18.050 Who do you grant? How much limit do you grant him? Pricing, elasticity of pricing. 00:09:18.050 --> 00:09:24.590 If we increase pricing or decrease pricing by 10%, will we overcompensate with customers or not? 00:09:25.140 --> 00:09:31.530 Who do you give the next best offer? And we had computer models that were using 00:09:31.530 --> 00:09:36.820 machine learning before large language models, and they would cluster customers. 00:09:36.820 --> 00:09:41.290 And then there was a human that would come in and would make a decision. 00:09:43.030 --> 00:09:48.290 And then we started applying large language models to our machine learning models. 00:09:48.750 --> 00:09:55.870 So suddenly, you've got insights that are coming from the data that you never thought existed. 00:09:56.230 --> 00:10:01.040 For example, in our line of business with risk models, if someone defaulted 00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:07.260 once in any loan and has consumed 80% of their limit, 00:10:08.560 --> 00:10:11.530 You should stop their limit and not give them any other limit. 00:10:12.230 --> 00:10:17.870 Or something to do with this segment of customers. You give them this offer 00:10:17.870 --> 00:10:21.580 because they're not going to abuse it. These are abusers. 00:10:22.390 --> 00:10:26.390 Once you get into doing this, what tends to happen is people, 00:10:26.850 --> 00:10:34.070 serious managers in the company, either evolve to rely on these models or they 00:10:34.070 --> 00:10:35.670 start feeling very insecure. 00:10:36.020 --> 00:10:39.250 Because if you're a risk guy and now there's a model who's telling you what 00:10:39.250 --> 00:10:41.010 to do, then what do you do next? 00:10:41.700 --> 00:10:46.340 Take another example, customers, hyper-personalization of customers. 00:10:46.340 --> 00:10:50.020 We have different types of customers, some who invest in money market funds, 00:10:50.020 --> 00:10:53.920 who are doing a brokerage company, some who take loans, some who use a card, 00:10:54.300 --> 00:10:56.600 and some who go in to do e-commerce. 00:10:57.130 --> 00:11:02.700 Very, very soon with generative AI, we'll be able to hyper-personalize the screen 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:09.880 on the app so that every customer gets the perfect use cases that he wants to 00:11:09.880 --> 00:11:11.950 use. You couldn't do that earlier. 00:11:12.540 --> 00:11:20.950 SAS models, we had HR systems that we were renting out from a third-party provider. 00:11:22.280 --> 00:11:28.450 Two years ago, I wanted to develop our own HR system because it fits into our 00:11:28.450 --> 00:11:31.400 incentives, into our employee management. 00:11:33.650 --> 00:11:38.080 It would take us a year and a half to develop. Now it takes us 60 days to develop. 00:11:38.530 --> 00:11:41.110 And perfect to our needs, perfect to what we want. 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:46.610 So you can't be skeptical. It's game-changing. And I highly, 00:11:46.610 --> 00:11:53.080 highly recommend any corporate who deals with a lot of data to start applying 00:11:53.740 --> 00:11:57.680 large language models within there and to get teams who are very, 00:11:57.680 --> 00:11:59.370 very experienced in that field. 00:12:00.420 --> 00:12:04.750 What you're talking about so far is mainly systems within the company, correct? 00:12:05.950 --> 00:12:10.510 How you're using AI at the moment. Is it helping you interact with your customer 00:12:10.510 --> 00:12:13.570 as well? Is it changing the way you interact with customers? 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:20.450 100 percent how do we interact with customers through the app through an individual 00:12:20.450 --> 00:12:22.820 either on the street or in a call center 00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:30.210 call center all calls are transcribed right now so any call that's happening in the call center 00:12:30.880 --> 00:12:35.560 we there's a large language model that's reading it and if you have a problem 00:12:35.560 --> 00:12:39.640 you know if it's a one-off problem or it's a systematic problem you can also 00:12:39.640 --> 00:12:43.130 know if the agent is a good agent or a bad agent. 00:12:43.660 --> 00:12:47.690 All this is done by machines, not by managers. So ultimately, 00:12:47.690 --> 00:12:53.280 ultimately, ultimately, we will all rely on Google Maps. 00:12:54.880 --> 00:12:55.860 And that's a big problem. 00:12:57.230 --> 00:13:02.260 Yeah. Thanks, Mounir. Amy, I'd like to move on to you. So you 00:13:03.570 --> 00:13:08.790 as being in the media, you wear a lot of different hats. You've got your entrepreneur 00:13:08.790 --> 00:13:13.700 hat, your storytelling hat, and so many others. 00:13:13.920 --> 00:13:16.970 How do you view AI? 00:13:17.620 --> 00:13:22.950 Is it just a tool that makes you able to amplify certain parts of your business? 00:13:25.300 --> 00:13:27.670 I always think of you as a writer first and foremost. 00:13:27.670 --> 00:13:28.800 Thank you, Malak. I appreciate that. 00:13:28.800 --> 00:13:36.050 So for me, you're always a writer first. So, you know, the human touch is hard to replicate. 00:13:36.190 --> 00:13:36.780 So true. 00:13:36.780 --> 00:13:39.340 So how do you deal with AI? 00:13:39.700 --> 00:13:46.940 I will tell you. First of all, Lamia, Hania, wow. Thank you so much for this. This is amazing. 00:13:48.160 --> 00:13:50.700 And E+, although usually that mention is biflus. 00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:58.800 So I was watching, actually speaking to exactly what you're saying. 00:13:58.800 --> 00:14:02.560 I was watching an interview the other day with a prolific author. 00:14:03.420 --> 00:14:07.010 And one of the first questions the interviewer asked, which is a typical question 00:14:07.010 --> 00:14:12.760 now, is they ask the author, well, do you use AI when you're writing? 00:14:13.510 --> 00:14:16.590 And this is one of the best answers I've ever heard. The author looks at the 00:14:16.590 --> 00:14:18.280 journalist and said, well, no, 00:14:18.620 --> 00:14:23.310 why would I? It seems to me like getting someone else to have sex for you. 00:14:24.880 --> 00:14:29.060 And I will tell you something, as a writer, Malak, as a journalist, 00:14:29.060 --> 00:14:38.780 as someone who has worked in media and the creative economy my entire life, I felt that viscerally. 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:44.510 I know this is a room full of suits, but we're all creatives and we all create. 00:14:45.070 --> 00:14:49.700 And I think we'd all agree that the human instinct to create, 00:14:49.700 --> 00:14:56.140 that desire to do so, has very little to do with the final outcome or the final 00:14:56.330 --> 00:14:58.120 product. It's the process. 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:06.620 It's that wrestling with the idea, the process of discovery and following your instinct and failing 00:15:07.700 --> 00:15:12.250 and figuring it out and eventually making the kind of breakthrough that oftentimes 00:15:12.250 --> 00:15:15.370 will get you somewhere completely unexpected. 00:15:15.780 --> 00:15:17.280 What happened to the guitar? 00:15:17.650 --> 00:15:22.000 What did happen to the guitar? I don't know. I didn't prepare that answer. 00:15:23.660 --> 00:15:26.790 What happened to the guitar? What happened? Where is Axl Rose? 00:15:26.790 --> 00:15:28.760 Where is... 00:15:28.760 --> 00:15:30.810 I mean, it's all being generated by machine. 00:15:30.810 --> 00:15:33.310 What I want to say is music has evolved. 00:15:33.310 --> 00:15:33.860 Music has evolved. 00:15:33.980 --> 00:15:37.920 Creation has evolved. But we have to adapt to the new wave. 00:15:38.390 --> 00:15:42.580 And so, exactly. And so, I mean, so at the end of the day, I mean, 00:15:42.580 --> 00:15:45.990 creativity, I don't... Creativity isn't about production. 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:50.330 It's about transformation. It's about how it transforms the creator and how 00:15:50.330 --> 00:15:54.120 it transforms the person consuming the creation. 00:15:54.680 --> 00:15:59.700 And I say this as a really important caveat, because in media 00:16:00.210 --> 00:16:05.000 and in storytelling, I think in journalism, especially, I think it's very, 00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:10.450 very important that we do not reduce creativity to productivity. 00:16:11.140 --> 00:16:13.480 And I'm going to put that out there and then I'm going to say, 00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:20.140 however, as a media owner and as an entrepreneur, I am incredibly optimistic 00:16:20.140 --> 00:16:22.680 about what AI is going to do to our industry. 00:16:23.230 --> 00:16:27.790 Because I don't think AI is about replacing creativity at all. 00:16:27.970 --> 00:16:30.230 But then how, Amy? What are you excited about? 00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:35.640 I'll tell you. I think it's about removing the friction around creativity, 00:16:35.640 --> 00:16:37.570 around storytelling and around journalism. 00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:42.000 At MO4, we operate across multiple storytelling and media platforms, 00:16:42.310 --> 00:16:45.790 and we have been aggressively integrating AI into our 00:16:46.110 --> 00:16:50.420 workflow processes, our content distribution processes, our content adaptation 00:16:50.420 --> 00:16:54.410 processes, parsing the vast amounts of information and content that comes through 00:16:54.410 --> 00:16:56.170 our doors every single day. 00:16:56.590 --> 00:17:02.760 What we're doing is really removing so much of the administrative and mechanical 00:17:02.760 --> 00:17:04.850 labor around storytelling. 00:17:04.850 --> 00:17:13.570 But I certainly am doing so with the very clear mission and intention of creating 00:17:13.570 --> 00:17:19.330 the space and the time for the humans and the extraordinary talents in the room. 00:17:19.690 --> 00:17:22.800 And I respectfully disagree with Dr. Mohamed Fahmi earlier. 00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:26.990 I believe, especially in my industry, there's extraordinary talent available. 00:17:27.370 --> 00:17:30.250 Maybe we're just not always utilizing them in the right way. 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:36.650 And I'm using that time that we're creating in order to allow the humans to 00:17:36.650 --> 00:17:42.770 do what the machines or to allow the humans to leverage what the machines don't have. 00:17:43.050 --> 00:17:45.730 And what's that? Emotional nuance. 00:17:46.710 --> 00:17:47.990 Cultural intuition. Intuition. 00:17:49.340 --> 00:17:52.580 Human perspective, investigative thinking. 00:17:53.080 --> 00:17:59.040 And all of that plays into a massive shift in the media industry where, 00:17:59.450 --> 00:18:02.790 you know, traditionally the internet was rewarding. 00:18:02.790 --> 00:18:05.590 What was it rewarding? It was rewarding when it came to content. 00:18:05.590 --> 00:18:12.410 It was rewarding volume, speed, clickability, and optimization. 00:18:12.410 --> 00:18:17.240 The very basics of the digital economy was forcing people like me to produce 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:19.920 more and more and more content just to survive. 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:30.320 But what does the AI do? The AI completely dismantles that formula because suddenly you and I 00:18:30.760 --> 00:18:35.450 and the man on the street can create an infinite, infinite amounts of content 00:18:35.870 --> 00:18:38.910 at the click of a finger. And what happens when the content is infinite? 00:18:39.090 --> 00:18:43.440 It loses its value. Any commodity loses its value once it's infinite, right? 00:18:43.830 --> 00:18:46.220 So then what has value instead? 00:18:47.300 --> 00:18:51.380 Trust. Trust becomes valuable. Taste. 00:18:52.210 --> 00:18:57.040 Taste becomes valuable. Human discernment becomes valuable. 00:18:57.930 --> 00:19:01.730 And you can see that already in the rise of personality-led journalism, 00:19:01.730 --> 00:19:06.550 your favorite podcast hosts, someone like Siyad. I saw Shady Sharif in the room earlier on. 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.560 You can see it in perspective-led news programming. 00:19:10.780 --> 00:19:15.330 You can see it in the rise of independent media ecosystems, such as Substack. 00:19:15.510 --> 00:19:17.140 Who in here is familiar with Substack? 00:19:18.300 --> 00:19:19.360 Go check out Substack. 00:19:19.820 --> 00:19:21.980 Go check out Amy's Substack. 00:19:21.980 --> 00:19:23.880 Thank you, Malak, for doing that on my blog. 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:26.720 But, Amy, I want to just pause for a minute in what you're saying. 00:19:28.230 --> 00:19:36.310 What I'm hearing from you is AI is a tool for amplification, for reaching further. 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:36.640 Yeah. 00:19:36.850 --> 00:19:39.540 But it's not a tool for creating. 00:19:39.730 --> 00:19:39.900 No. 00:19:40.260 --> 00:19:42.480 The creation is still a human endeavor. 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:45.270 I'll tell you what's going to happen. And I believe this is going to happen. 00:19:45.270 --> 00:19:49.390 And this is the most important thing, especially when it comes to the Middle East. 00:19:49.390 --> 00:19:52.830 And there is a lot of conversation in the room today. And I understand given 00:19:52.830 --> 00:19:57.770 the type of crowd around the tech and the financing and the payment systems. 00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:02.430 There's a big conversation that remains missing. And it's horrifying if we don't 00:20:02.430 --> 00:20:04.950 pay attention to it. And it's around our stories. 00:20:05.450 --> 00:20:08.260 So, yes, it is a tool. But what we need to do is... 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:11.350 Let me pause on that because I do want to go into that. I want to talk about 00:20:11.350 --> 00:20:14.850 that in a lot more detail. Okay. But I'm just going to pause and I'm going to 00:20:14.850 --> 00:20:18.120 move on to Ali. Sure, go for it. Mounir, can you hold your thought? 00:20:18.580 --> 00:20:19.620 Just to react to it. 00:20:19.620 --> 00:20:20.160 Okay, go ahead. 00:20:20.620 --> 00:20:22.220 I'm in complete disagreement. 00:20:23.360 --> 00:20:25.500 Good. This makes for a good discussion. 00:20:25.500 --> 00:20:26.750 I'm in complete... 00:20:30.600 --> 00:20:36.920 I think AI is in a very, very early stage of the journey. 00:20:37.420 --> 00:20:42.160 And we have already seen people falling in love with their AI agent. 00:20:42.690 --> 00:20:44.830 I mean, if a man wakes up in the morning 00:20:47.840 --> 00:20:52.590 and he sees a beautiful sunrise and they say, oh, what a beautiful sunrise. 00:20:53.010 --> 00:20:56.640 And then his wife tells him, shut up. I want to sleep. You're waking me up. 00:20:57.080 --> 00:20:59.740 But then you have a voice, an AI agent is telling you, 00:21:00.840 --> 00:21:06.130 With exactly the right words, with exactly the right tone you want to hear. 00:21:06.340 --> 00:21:08.330 It's like that movie. What was that movie called? 00:21:08.330 --> 00:21:13.620 It's fabulous. And then suddenly you have a human being who's developing an 00:21:13.620 --> 00:21:17.450 emotional connection to an agent, to a bot. 00:21:17.550 --> 00:21:18.730 But that's, yeah. 00:21:18.730 --> 00:21:19.660 This is happening. 00:21:19.660 --> 00:21:20.160 Yeah, I know. 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:24.130 What I want to say, and I'm just contesting the emotional connection part. 00:21:24.460 --> 00:21:26.000 So what's happening? And it's scary. 00:21:26.350 --> 00:21:30.360 And we have to acknowledge it's happening. and people, very lonely people in 00:21:30.360 --> 00:21:35.480 countries where you don't have a lot of sun, get depressed and they connect with these agents. 00:21:36.290 --> 00:21:41.810 We read in the newspaper that you have an individual who's filing against the 00:21:41.810 --> 00:21:45.050 government to have the AI agent vote. 00:21:46.220 --> 00:21:51.690 You have this. This exists. And you have people who are killing themselves because 00:21:51.690 --> 00:21:52.970 they're in love with the AI agent. 00:21:53.730 --> 00:21:57.140 This is happening. So emotions happening. Creativity 00:21:58.190 --> 00:22:03.230 I'm very, very sad to tell you if I'm redesigning my house and I put six of 00:22:03.230 --> 00:22:07.680 the top designers I like and I throw it into the bot and I tell them I want 00:22:07.930 --> 00:22:10.370 to develop a 400 square meter house 00:22:11.360 --> 00:22:13.750 inspired by these four architects. 00:22:14.090 --> 00:22:20.290 Please design the ping pong. I have a design. Oh, I don't like one, two, three, four. Okay. 00:22:21.630 --> 00:22:27.180 One year from now, the agent will know exactly, I won't even need to probe which 00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:28.690 are the four architects I like. 00:22:28.690 --> 00:22:30.750 I think Inji might have something to say about that. 00:22:30.780 --> 00:22:35.030 By the way, I think I just want to add one line. Hang on, you're both right, 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.880 and you're going to converge to some point in the future with both tracks. 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:42.060 Yeah, yeah. Okay? There's a path for both directions, I think. 00:22:42.180 --> 00:22:47.450 I completely agree with both of you, okay? And I don't think that these are opposite opinions. 00:22:47.690 --> 00:22:51.100 These are two opinions in parallel tracks That will continue to go 00:22:51.100 --> 00:22:58.870 down the road. Absolutely. Thanks, Mounir Amir Nice to have you with us. I'd like 00:22:58.870 --> 00:23:02.540 to know your perspective On how you see 00:23:03.860 --> 00:23:07.640 AI being delivered to customers 00:23:10.100 --> 00:23:15.770 through the telecom networks generally. I know that 5G is being rolled out in Egypt and beyond. 00:23:16.120 --> 00:23:24.550 How are you seeing that rollout as enabling or helping to bring AI to a wider group of people? 00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:29.110 Thank you, Malak. Actually, the AI has been in the telecom industry for a while, 00:23:29.110 --> 00:23:32.780 but now the most exciting about it is the next phase. 00:23:33.110 --> 00:23:39.000 When we have the AI coming into the people's life, impacting the economy of 00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:41.540 the country, the GDP, how this will be reflected. 00:23:41.540 --> 00:23:45.880 And the good news that we have welcomed 5G in Egypt last year as a first phase 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:52.540 is the early stage of 5G with a solid roadmap being put by the government down 00:23:52.540 --> 00:23:53.860 the road for the coming five years. 00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:58.220 So what have came to Egypt recently is what we call it the 5G non-standalone. 00:23:58.860 --> 00:24:03.330 This one of the technology is kind of 4G++ Plus, that gives more speed with 00:24:03.330 --> 00:24:08.240 some applications that's interesting maybe for the new generations. If we talk about 00:24:10.830 --> 00:24:16.180 Gaming industry, virtual reality, and this stuff, that high speed is coming. 00:24:16.180 --> 00:24:19.230 But what is most interesting is what's coming next. 00:24:19.570 --> 00:24:23.820 When we talk about the 5G standalone, where we will have the connected devices, 00:24:23.820 --> 00:24:27.810 we connect the communities. Speaking about Egypt, we know, for example, 00:24:27.810 --> 00:24:31.720 that agriculture is a key pillar of the Egyptian economy. 00:24:32.390 --> 00:24:39.120 And I think it's important to all that the world will be facing today or will face a food 00:24:39.120 --> 00:24:40.870 crisis and a water crisis. Not enough food or enough water for the people. 00:24:41.190 --> 00:24:47.170 And think about it now when we, by 5G, enabling the connectivity of the agricultural 00:24:47.170 --> 00:24:51.630 industry of doing this efficiency, more production, more productivity, 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:54.000 control of the waste of the water. 00:24:54.280 --> 00:24:59.330 How this will look like in the economy? How this will help Egypt in standing 00:24:59.330 --> 00:25:03.110 up in its global position when it comes to that specific use case. 00:25:03.600 --> 00:25:06.850 Many, many use cases are coming down the road. For example, when we talk about 00:25:06.850 --> 00:25:11.290 the medical sector, they are talking about like robot doing and operations. 00:25:11.580 --> 00:25:15.890 Does the government need to invest in each and every village to have a fully equipped hospital? 00:25:16.220 --> 00:25:18.970 I don't think so. Maybe you will have it centralized with the AI, 00:25:19.280 --> 00:25:22.960 enabling the people living maybe in upper Egypt, in Sahel, or anywhere, 00:25:23.210 --> 00:25:26.340 to do the operations with a doctor maybe sitting in Cairo or somewhere else. 00:25:26.340 --> 00:25:28.160 That's already happening, not in Egypt, 00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:33.410 But in other places. That's what's coming to Egypt. hopefully with a 5G standalone introduction. 00:25:33.690 --> 00:25:38.940 A lot of examples, for example, a lot of production improvement is 00:25:39.800 --> 00:25:43.900 happening in the industry where you have a 5G-enabled factories that's using 00:25:43.900 --> 00:25:49.030 AI completely to improve the production and increase it and enhance it. 00:25:49.330 --> 00:25:53.390 That will help also the economy. And there are clear statistics talking about 00:25:53.390 --> 00:25:57.800 the GDP improvement by introducing 5G using the AI in such use cases. 00:25:57.800 --> 00:26:01.740 So if we're looking to the future, the future looks very optimistic for me. 00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:04.330 I believe that Egypt can leverage on this much more. 00:26:04.620 --> 00:26:06.810 And there's no doubt that telecom is the conduit. 00:26:07.460 --> 00:26:08.900 To the people for all of this. 00:26:09.010 --> 00:26:11.390 Exactly. So we were providing only 00:26:11.390 --> 00:26:14.980 connectivity. Today, we are going connectivity, speed, and the latency. 00:26:15.310 --> 00:26:18.550 You will have billions of devices connected, not like before. 00:26:18.780 --> 00:26:22.490 It's not only about us as end users using our mobile for connectivity. 00:26:22.820 --> 00:26:24.470 You will connect each and every device. 00:26:24.830 --> 00:26:30.220 You will connect a drone watching the corpse. You are connecting devices watching 00:26:30.220 --> 00:26:32.270 the statistics across many industries. 00:26:32.470 --> 00:26:34.880 So it's a revolution in my view. 00:26:35.190 --> 00:26:38.700 It's coming and Egypt is planning to leverage into this one, 00:26:38.950 --> 00:26:44.820 especially with the digital vision and roadmap that we have 2030 led by the government. 00:26:45.080 --> 00:26:49.530 Yes.Thank you, Amer. Thank you. Karima, I'd like to move on to you. 00:26:49.890 --> 00:26:55.300 And we have 12 minutes left for the entire panel. So can we try and keep it 00:26:55.300 --> 00:26:58.630 to five so that we can then just open up to all of us? Sure. 00:27:00.490 --> 00:27:08.090 You are a VC and you're aware of a lot of what the market is looking for around us here. 00:27:08.810 --> 00:27:12.890 You've spoken of the need to create a healthy and dynamic private sector as 00:27:12.890 --> 00:27:16.850 a key to moving forward with innovation and sustainable growth. 00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:23.570 Take us on that journey of where the private sector needs to be in order for 00:27:24.390 --> 00:27:28.400 it to be a delivery mechanism for all this new technology. 00:27:29.350 --> 00:27:34.800 Thank you very much, Malak, for asking this question. And just for a quick commentary 00:27:36.140 --> 00:27:37.480 on the debate, I agree with Ahmed. 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:41.220 It's two opinions, but it's also related to the user interface. 00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.810 When we have hybrid machines that are now mimicking more and more humans, 00:27:46.060 --> 00:27:49.560 this is where, again, in the next 10 years when we see this deployment, 00:27:49.840 --> 00:27:53.040 we can find a middle ground in that opinion. 00:27:53.420 --> 00:27:57.860 But to your questions about the private sector, and this goes back to the panel, 00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:00.810 I had the pleasure to moderate. It's really the practice. 00:28:01.110 --> 00:28:05.350 And as I started the conversation by saying that VCs and investors, 00:28:05.350 --> 00:28:09.320 regardless of the type of capital, are looking for use cases, 00:28:09.320 --> 00:28:14.990 are looking for healthy growth revenues, this is when we expect the private sector to step in. 00:28:16.360 --> 00:28:20.920 I've studied, and you mentioned, a trip to the US. I spent three weeks in Boston 00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:24.580 and Cambridge, actually, finishing a fellowship that I was doing. 00:28:24.580 --> 00:28:29.240 And part of the studies that I was doing is really study the five stakeholder 00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:36.380 model that makes an ecosystem healthy. And it's an MIT model that is proprietary to them. 00:28:36.690 --> 00:28:40.680 And the five stakeholders are first the entrepreneurs, my favorites, 00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:42.570 and the founders themselves who are leading. 00:28:43.620 --> 00:28:49.780 The government is playing a huge role in this. The venture capital or the risk capital and the 00:28:50.830 --> 00:28:55.290 Again, the private sector, the corporates, and the fifth one is the universities. 00:28:55.290 --> 00:29:01.120 And I actually listed them in our strength and weakest stakeholder when it comes 00:29:01.120 --> 00:29:05.930 to a market like Egypt, with the lowest scoring stakeholders being the corporates 00:29:05.930 --> 00:29:07.190 and then the universities. 00:29:07.510 --> 00:29:13.250 Again, to Dr. Mohamed Fahmi, which I actually agree, Amy, he was talking about the PhD talents. 00:29:13.250 --> 00:29:18.340 These are the researchers in the labs that are decreasing. It's not the tech 00:29:18.340 --> 00:29:22.940 talent and the talent as a whole for Egypt. So this is more on the deep tech 00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:28.170 talent that he's seeing decrease in universities as researchers and PhD holders. 00:29:29.170 --> 00:29:33.180 For these five stakeholders, the weakest two are in Egypt or in a market like 00:29:33.180 --> 00:29:37.060 Egypt are the corporates and the universities. 00:29:37.060 --> 00:29:41.010 For the private sector, we're looking at very small sizes. 00:29:41.010 --> 00:29:44.510 And when they're not thriving, when companies are not thriving, 00:29:44.510 --> 00:29:48.160 they're surviving. So they're not really investing. They're not doing like what 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.690 Mounir has advised the corporates who are building with a lot of data. 00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:56.020 So the small SMEs are not doing that. 00:29:56.020 --> 00:29:59.890 So by enabling this space, so the smaller 00:30:00.860 --> 00:30:04.820 Companies and the small private sector, and enabling them with productivity 00:30:04.820 --> 00:30:09.450 tools and service efficiencies, we're not asking them to create their own models, 00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:14.370 but to feed the large language models with their proprietary data. 00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:20.260 So SMEs in Egypt have a very defensible situation because they're dealing with 00:30:20.260 --> 00:30:24.900 data that not the big ones they're not looking at. So they have unique data sets. 00:30:25.420 --> 00:30:28.160 What do they do with this? They don't do anything with it. 00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:33.580 So if they start appropriating it the right way, we can create sector-specific, 00:30:33.580 --> 00:30:37.290 let's say, I don't want to use the leaping because maybe this is too ambition, 00:30:37.290 --> 00:30:40.440 but sector-specific, let's say, 00:30:41.100 --> 00:30:45.480 I want to say, specialization for Egypt. So agricultural sector will thrive 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:50.500 like this. So the small farmers and the aggregation of these SMEs that work 00:30:50.500 --> 00:30:51.840 in the service sector of this. 00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:57.550 The healthcare sector can thrive, maybe not. But for Egypt, it's agri and tourism, 00:30:57.550 --> 00:31:01.020 basically. So these two sectors can find the defensibility. 00:31:01.710 --> 00:31:05.520 So the private sector is important. And again, unfortunately, 00:31:05.520 --> 00:31:07.970 universities are very well underfunded. 00:31:08.210 --> 00:31:12.750 But if we look at something that we can do surgically and really quickly, 00:31:13.630 --> 00:31:19.020 fixing the adoption rate of SMEs and even the smaller cap, mid cap corporates 00:31:19.020 --> 00:31:26.590 in Egypt can really allow the startups and the general ecosystem to build on further. 00:31:27.100 --> 00:31:31.770 Thanks, Karima. There was a point that you made and Amy had made as well. 00:31:31.770 --> 00:31:35.420 And I think it's something that we didn't really talk about in a few of the other panels, 00:31:35.950 --> 00:31:40.760 which is how do we make sure that whatever AI is coming down the line 00:31:41.330 --> 00:31:47.870 is Arabized and is relevant to us, that we are not taking what is being given 00:31:47.870 --> 00:31:51.660 to us by Western-centric LLMs. 00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:54.660 Amy, you made this point to me privately. 00:31:55.130 --> 00:31:58.550 How do we feed the machine with our information? 00:31:58.800 --> 00:32:02.370 I mean, it goes back to what I was saying. We need to... 00:32:03.250 --> 00:32:08.170 Invest heavily in credible media institutions 00:32:08.740 --> 00:32:14.470 that are able to leverage AI to create the cost efficiencies to do what is essentially 00:32:14.470 --> 00:32:17.860 a very expensive task, which is empower 00:32:17.860 --> 00:32:23.450 our Arab journalists and our Arab storytellers to go out into the world 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.310 and find our contemporary stories 00:32:27.980 --> 00:32:33.150 and tell them and package them in a way that does not already exist inside the computer. 00:32:33.150 --> 00:32:36.650 Because any information you're getting from AI is something that already exists 00:32:36.650 --> 00:32:39.010 somewhere in our consciousness. 00:32:39.140 --> 00:32:45.430 So who is going out and getting our Arab stories and investing them into our systems, number one. 00:32:45.710 --> 00:32:51.340 And number two, on the flip side, using these AI tools to be able to digitize 00:32:51.340 --> 00:32:54.700 our archives, to document our Arab histories. 00:32:54.700 --> 00:33:00.670 Accelerating at light speed of finding new drugs, novel solutions, 00:33:00.670 --> 00:33:04.970 and novel cures to different problems, number one. Number two... 00:33:05.980 --> 00:33:10.770 One of, I'm tying this back now to the earlier discussion of fintechs and financial inclusion, right? 00:33:11.020 --> 00:33:14.080 If we spend all our money on financial inclusion and bringing the bottom of 00:33:14.080 --> 00:33:17.910 the pyramid up, there's not going to be a pyramid anymore. It's going to be a flat line. 00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:21.960 We have to spend and invest in the top of the pyramid and lift up the top of 00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:26.450 the pyramid in this country, which is our top scientists, our top tech people, 00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:31.330 and lift them up and invest in those guys as much as we invest across the bottom of the pyramid. 00:33:31.570 --> 00:33:35.640 And that's really kind of the message that got lost. And I was really pounding 00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:37.750 the table on a couple of days ago in Kenya. 00:33:37.750 --> 00:33:40.330 Are you referring to a brain drain that's happening? 00:33:40.330 --> 00:33:43.380 No, I don't think there's a brain drain. I think actually there's a brain return. 00:33:43.590 --> 00:33:47.590 And I think the thing that I've been continuing proposing is we have to have 00:33:47.590 --> 00:33:49.410 a brain recirculation, okay? 00:33:49.620 --> 00:33:53.230 Where they go learn and come back, go train and come back, collaborate and come back. 00:33:53.230 --> 00:33:55.410 That was mentioned in a previous panel as well. 00:33:56.010 --> 00:34:02.470 My top semiconductor company, their six PhDs all got their PhDs in France and came back, okay? 00:34:02.600 --> 00:34:08.750 And when you mentioned robotics, this one company in Egypt is making the chips 00:34:09.030 --> 00:34:10.580 that they are now pitching to all 00:34:10.580 --> 00:34:13.470 the top robotics companies in the world because robots can see and hear. 00:34:13.770 --> 00:34:17.520 And with these chips that we designed here that are Egyptian company, 00:34:17.780 --> 00:34:19.300 robots can taste and smell. 00:34:21.190 --> 00:34:22.670 Karima, I cut you off earlier. 00:34:23.110 --> 00:34:27.150 No, no, it's fine. Please, go ahead. I just wanted to make a very quick distinction 00:34:27.150 --> 00:34:29.470 and bring this forward to inclusion as well. 00:34:30.170 --> 00:34:34.490 So maybe when you mentioned the Arab language and this, I want to step away 00:34:34.490 --> 00:34:38.480 from Arabic language because this is more on the generative model. 00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:42.500 But really what I didn't mean language as much as culture and heritage and identity. 00:34:42.500 --> 00:34:47.380 Exactly. So building on this, actually, so we spoke about the SMEs being also 00:34:47.380 --> 00:34:52.790 a potential opportunity for Egypt to grow its private sector capabilities for 00:34:52.790 --> 00:34:56.240 procurement and deployment of AI technologies. 00:34:56.590 --> 00:35:01.960 But what we have also is this data that is not present in the capital cities. 00:35:02.160 --> 00:35:06.850 So when you go in the muhafazat and you go to actually create use cases for, 00:35:06.850 --> 00:35:13.030 again, going back to the agri-space, for agricultural efficiencies and data sets. 00:35:13.030 --> 00:35:18.240 So when you create that and you will build your defensibility towards other 00:35:18.240 --> 00:35:22.100 solutions that can come in from abroad because they will train their models 00:35:22.290 --> 00:35:27.870 based on this very unique data sets that they can get from places where no one is. 00:35:29.080 --> 00:35:32.540 And the learning was that I was actually looking at in Africa. 00:35:32.540 --> 00:35:34.720 I got a partner title for Africa. 00:35:34.950 --> 00:35:39.170 And now my main concern is really going down to the governorates. So I'm pissed off. 00:35:39.630 --> 00:35:44.790 I pissed off so many people in my work now that we're looking at investing more deep down. 00:35:45.380 --> 00:35:48.540 But this is where I think Egypt can be. 00:35:48.590 --> 00:35:49.620 Thanks, Karima. Mounir? 00:35:49.930 --> 00:35:54.680 Malak, I think the debate is a real philosophical debate. 00:35:55.310 --> 00:36:00.150 And how do you preserve culture and identity? How do you storytell? 00:36:01.020 --> 00:36:04.820 I couldn't help but think when you're saying we need to... 00:36:04.930 --> 00:36:08.040 That you wanted to invest in media institutions? Is that what you were thinking, Mounir? 00:36:08.040 --> 00:36:11.600 100%. Okay, great. Let's talk after. I couldn't... 00:36:11.600 --> 00:36:11.890 Okay. 00:36:11.890 --> 00:36:14.640 There's a breakout room over there. 00:36:16.610 --> 00:36:22.880 I couldn't stop thinking about, are we documenting it because we're going to go obsolete? 00:36:23.260 --> 00:36:25.490 Or are we documenting it for what? 00:36:26.310 --> 00:36:35.890 And I really think the change is so dramatic and we're just starting to see the change. 00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:40.450 And three years down the line, when we look back, we're going to say, 00:36:40.890 --> 00:36:43.370 oh my God, how did all this happen in three years? 00:36:43.370 --> 00:36:48.030 That's exactly how I'm concluding, actually, because I think what we're witnessing 00:36:48.030 --> 00:36:53.920 now, we're at the very, very beginning of a very, very long journey. I want to thank you all. 00:36:54.630 --> 00:36:58.670 Thank you for a really great discussion we just began really there's a lot we 00:36:58.670 --> 00:37:04.930 can talk about but time constraints, thank you all very much and thank you Malak ``` ### My conversation with Karim Moussa, Co-CEO of EFG Hermes (Buy Side) URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-conversation-with-karim-moussa-co-ceo-of-efg-hermes-buy-side/ Last updated: 2026-06-24T11:36:38.000Z Today I’m bringing you a special episode with our sponsor EFG Holding. I recently interviewed Karim Moussa, Co-CEO of EFG Hermes Buy Side, Head of Private Equity & Asset Management & CEO of Vortex Energy. Karim tells me how he got started in private equity, and how the thesis of investing with purpose led EFG to expand renewables, education and healthcare. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I’ll be back with a new guest in a couple of weeks. But before that, we’ll be airing the panel discussion on how AI will continue to impact Egypt and the region that I moderated in May. The panel was part of The Shift by e&, organised by the fantastic team at The Narrative Summit. ### Youssef Salem on AI and the future of the region URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/youssef-salem-on-ai-and-the-future-of-the-region/ Last updated: 2026-06-16T09:37:54.000Z 🖥️ Did you know? You can now watch video episodes of the show on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/kw/podcast/widn-with-malak-fouad/id1549640242?ref=at-media-group.com)! We’re continuing my conversation with Youssef Salem, CFO of ADNOC Drilling. On this episode, we’re talking about AI, energy security and the future of the region. Youssef also tells me why the younger generation needs to prepare for greater competition in the AI age and how he's working to inspire them. SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) ADNOC is the UAE’s primary oil company and 12th largest in the world in terms of production. You can also watch the first part of our conversation where we talk about his personal and professional pivots [here](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-conversation-with-adnoc-drillings-cfo-youssef-salem/). I’ll be back next week with a special episode with our sponsor, EFG Holding, where I’ll be speaking to Karim Moussa, Co-CEO of EFG Hermes (Buy Side), Head of Private Equity & Asset Management & CEO of Vortex Energy. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. ### My conversation with ADNOC Drilling’s CFO Youssef Salem URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-conversation-with-adnoc-drillings-cfo-youssef-salem/ Last updated: 2026-06-09T08:01:06.000Z 🖥️ We’re excited to share that you can now also watch video versions of our episodes on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/kw/podcast/widn-with-malak-fouad/id1549640242?ref=at-media-group.com)! I‘m delighted to be joined by Youssef Salem, CFO for ADNOC Drilling. ADNOC is the UAE’s primary oil company and 12th largest in the world in terms of production. SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I’ve followed Youssef for quite some time now and in addition to his many professional accomplishments, he’s a wonderful role model for the younger generation entering the corporate world. On this first of two episodes, we talk about his personal and professional pivots that brought him to where he is today, and the impact of the recent war on the UAE. We’ll continue the conversation next week on Part 2, where we talk about the oil & gas sector and how companies like ADNOC handle crisis management in times like these. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. ### Nabila Abdel Nabi on the future of museums URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/nabila-abdel-nabi-on-the-future-of-museums/ Last updated: 2026-06-09T12:02:07.000Z SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) We’re continuing my conversation with Nabila Abdel Nabi, Senior Curator of International Art at Tate Modern and Lead of the Hyundai Tate Research Centre: Transnational. On this episode, we talk about the paradigm shifts happening in the art world, and how a curator like Nabila collects feedback from the Museum’s audience. SPONSOR ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/02/AZ-Website-Logo--Transparent-.png) On the episode, Nabila is wearing Azza Fahmy’s [Lotus Bouquet Earrings](https://azzafahmy.com/en-ae/products/lotus%5Fbouquet%5Fearrings?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FNabila&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FNabila), the [Blossom Lotus Ring](https://azzafahmy.com/products/blossom%5Flotus%5Fring?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FNabila&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FNabila), and the [Winged Scarab Cuff](https://azzafahmy.com/products/winged-scarab-cuff?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FNabila&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FNabila). Malak is wearing [T-Lock Love Necklace](https://azzafahmy.com/products/t%5Flock%5Flove%5Fnecklace?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FNabila&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FNabila), the [Gold Floral Tribal Earrings](https://azzafahmy.com/products/gold-floral-tribal-earrings?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FNabila&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FNabila), and the [Gold Roman Chain Bangle](https://azzafahmy.com/products/gold-roman-chain-bangle?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FNabila&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FNabila). In case you missed it, you can catch Part 1 of our conversation [here](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/nabila-abdel-nabi/), where we talk about Nabila’s curatorial work, and the importance of better institutional support for parents. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). ### My conversation with Tate Modern’s Nabila Abdel Nabi URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/nabila-abdel-nabi-tate-modern/ Last updated: 2026-08-17T05:47:21.000Z SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I’m joined today by Nabila Abdel Nabi, Senior Curator for International Art at Tate Modern and Lead of the Hyundai Tate Research Center: Transnational. When Nabila and I first met a few years ago, I was immediately impressed by her sincerity and depth. She is thoughtful and intentional in how she interacts with the world and those qualities make for deep and interesting conversations. In part 1 of our conversation, we talk about her curatorial work, including her focus on transnational and transcultural approaches to art history, and the importance of better institutional support for parents. SPONSOR ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/02/AZ-Website-Logo--Transparent-.png) On the episode, Nabila is wearing Azza Fahmy’s [Lotus Bouquet Earrings](https://azzafahmy.com/en-ae/products/lotus%5Fbouquet%5Fearrings?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FNabila&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FNabila), the [Blossom Lotus Ring](https://azzafahmy.com/products/blossom%5Flotus%5Fring?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FNabila&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FNabila), and the [Winged Scarab Cuff](https://azzafahmy.com/products/winged-scarab-cuff?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FNabila&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FNabila). Malak is wearing [T-Lock Love Necklace](https://azzafahmy.com/products/t%5Flock%5Flove%5Fnecklace?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FNabila&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FNabila), the [Gold Floral Tribal Earrings](https://azzafahmy.com/products/gold-floral-tribal-earrings?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FNabila&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FNabila), and the [Gold Roman Chain Bangle](https://azzafahmy.com/products/gold-roman-chain-bangle?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FNabila&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FNabila). On Part 2 of our conversation next week, Nabila and I talk about the evolution of the museum-artist dynamic as well as something that is especially interesting to me—the idea of repatriating art to its country of origin. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. ### Encore: Jalal Abu-Gazaleh & Dalia Sultan URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-jalal-abu-gazaleh-dalia-sultan/ Last updated: 2026-04-21T08:00:29.000Z I’m re-connecting again with one of my first guests, Jalal Abu-Gazaleh & Dalia Sultan, co-founders of *Gourmet Egypt*. The headline news since [we first spoke](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/jalal-abu-ghazaleh-dalia-sultan/) in 2021 is that the company went public earlier this year! Listen in for the inside story of their expansion and IPO. This episode is part of *Encore*, where I check-in with some of your favourite WIDN alumni. We’ll continue this segment with more of the show’s alumni, so stay tuned. ### Tim Marshall on the importance of geography URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/tim-marshall-on-the-importance-of-geography/ Last updated: 2026-04-14T09:00:53.000Z SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) We're continuing my conversation with journalist & best-selling author of *Prisoners of Geography*, Tim Marshall. On this episode, Tim tells me how the journalism landscape has changed, and the importance of geographical context in understanding current affairs and geopolitics. I’ll be back again next week with a special *Encore* episode with two of my earliest guests—Jalal Abu Ghazaleh and Dalia Sultan, co-founders of *Gourmet Egypt*—and the amazing story that led to their incredible IPO earlier this year. ### My conversation with Tim Marshall, veteran journalist and best-selling author URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-conversation-with-tim-marshall-veteran-journalist-and-best-selling-author/ Last updated: 2026-04-07T14:06:42.000Z SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) Tim Marshall joins me on the show this week to talk about his journey from starting out with the British Royal Air Force to his three-decade career in journalism, and now best-selling author of *Prisoners of Geography*. We also talk about the importance of understanding geography and how that intersects with current affairs and geopolitics. This is particularly relevant considering the ongoing war in the Middle East. More on that in Part 2 which comes out next week. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. ### Empowering the arab youth, with Thuraya Ismail URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/empowering-the-arab-youth-with-thuraya-ismail/ Last updated: 2026-03-31T04:30:14.000Z SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I’m continuing my conversation with Thuraya Ismail, CEO of [ @MentorArabia ](https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UCaLeTqBHuF0v-wG-vHxJsvQ?ref=at-media-group.com), an organisation dedicated to improving the well-being of the Arab youth. On this episode, Thuraya shares her insights on drug prevention, overcoming stigma, and how this work intersects with her other passion for arts & film. SPONSOR ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/02/AZ-Website-Logo--Transparent-.png) This episode is also brought to you by [Azza Fahmy Jewellery](https://azzafahmy.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. ### My conversation with Thuraya Ismail URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-conversation-with-thuraya-ismail-mentor-arabia/ Last updated: 2026-03-24T08:00:13.000Z SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I’m delighted to welcome Thuraya Ismail. She's the CEO of *Mentor Arabia*, an organisation dedicated to improving the well-being of young Arabs in general, and towards drug prevention in particular. Since its launch in 2006, Mentor Arabia has reached more than 1.5 million beneficiaries and now operates across 12 countries. Stay tuned for more on that in Part 2 of our conversation next week. I’m really impressed with Thuraya’s work, and I was happy to sit down and get a real in-depth look at her journey, including the loss of her father, and her work to mentor the youth of our region. SPONSOR ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/02/AZ-Website-Logo--Transparent-.png) This episode is also brought to you by [Azza Fahmy Jewellery](https://azzafahmy.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. ### Double-Take: Art & Heritage with Nada Debs, Louis Barthelemy, Omniya Abdel Barr & Sarah Beydoun URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/double-take-art-heritage-with-nada-debs-louis-barthelemy-omniya-abdel-barr-sarah-beydoun/ Last updated: 2026-03-14T06:32:25.000Z SPONSOR ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/02/AZ-Website-Logo--Transparent-.png) This episode is brought to you by [Azza Fahmy Jewellery](https://azzafahmy.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). On this episode, you'll hear about the incredible message through art with designer Nada Debs and entrepreneur Sarah Beydoun, and the importance of preservation from Omniya Abdel Barr and artist Louis Barthelemy. This episode is part of our segment, *Double-Take,* where I take a deep-dive into a single topic and connect the dots between some of our best conversations. Let me know your thoughts [on this episode](#ghost-comments), or leave us a comment on [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsW51Dd3BcQ&ref=at-media-group.com) or on [Instagram](https://instagram.com/what.i.did.next/?ref=at-media-group.com). ### Encore: Mo Hefzy URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-mo-hefzy/ Last updated: 2026-02-17T08:00:35.000Z I'm re-connecting today with award-winning film producer Mo Hefzy. Since I [first spoke to him](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/mohamed-hefzy/) in 2022, Mo has had a series of successful releases, including 'Flight 404', 'Seeking Haven for Mr. Rambo', 'Darwish', and many more. This episode is part of Encore, where I check-in with some of your favourite WIDN alumni. We’ll continue this segment with more of the show’s alumni, so stay tuned. This episode is part of *Encore*, where I check-in with some of your favourite WIDN alumni. We’ll continue this segment with more of the show’s, so stay tuned. ### Abdel Wahed El Wakil on the evolution of architecture URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/abdel-wahed-el-wakil-on-the-evolution-of-architecture/ Last updated: 2026-02-10T08:30:03.000Z SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) We’re continuing my conversation with legendary architecture Abdel Wahed El Wakil. Today, we’re diving deep into the world of architecture and materials. This episode is a crash-course whether you're in the field, an enthusiast like me, or just want a better understanding of the world around us. Abdel Wahed also tells me about the spiritual connection that traditional architecture fosters with nature and our experience as humans. SPONSOR ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/02/AZ-Website-Logo--Transparent-.png) This episode is also brought to you by [Azza Fahmy Jewellery](https://azzafahmy.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. ### My conversation with legendary architect Abdel Wahed El Wakil URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/abdel-wahed-el-wakil-award-winning-architect/ Last updated: 2026-08-20T10:26:27.000Z SPONSOR [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I’m joined today by a legend of from the world of architecture, Abdel Wahed El Wakil. I sat down with him a couple of weeks ago in Doha, where he now lives, to document his incredible journey, his vision for architecture as an industry, and Islamic architecture in particular. Abdel Wahed has designed buildings around the world, including in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Paris and London. He also studied and worked under his mentor, Hassan Fathy, an architecture legend in his own right. SPONSOR ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/02/AZ-Website-Logo--Transparent-.png) This episode is also brought to you by [Azza Fahmy Jewellery](https://azzafahmy.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). We’ll be continuing our conversation next week, where Abdel Wahed tells me about the evolution of architecture and materials, so stay tuned! If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. ### Encore: Chef Bobby Chinn URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-with-chef-bobby-chinn/ Last updated: 2026-01-27T08:00:18.000Z I'm re-connecting today with celebrity chef & author Bobby Chinn. I [first spoke to Bobby](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bobby-chinn/) during the summer of 2021 in preparation for Season 2\. That feels like such a long time ago, we were just 8 episodes in at the time, and we're now in our 6th year with more than a 100 episodes! This episode is part of Encore, where I check-in with some of your favourite WIDN alumni. We’ll continue this segment with more of the show’s alumni next month, so stay tuned. ### Maria Shollenbarger on why destinations trend, and the future of travel URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/maria-shollenbarger-on-why-destinations-trend-and-the-future-of-travel/ Last updated: 2026-02-02T10:38:44.000Z SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) We’re continuing my conversation with luxury travel journalist and editor Maria Shollenbarger. Today, we’re delving into the travel industry—how and why certain destinations trend over others, how preferences have changed since CoVID, and the future of travel in the age of AI. SPONSOR ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/02/AZ-Website-Logo--Transparent-.png) This episode is also brought to you by [Azza Fahmy Jewellery](https://azzafahmy.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). In case you missed Part 1 of my conversation with Maria, you can watch it [here](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-conversation-with-maria-shollenbarger/). If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please share this episode with someone who would enjoy it too. You can also [leave us a comment](#ghost-comments). I’ll be back next week with a new *Encore* episode with all-round rockstar Bobby Chinn. ### My conversation with Maria Shollenbarger URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-conversation-with-maria-shollenbarger/ Last updated: 2026-02-02T10:38:34.000Z SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I’m excited to be kicking off the year with Maria Shollenbarger, travel editor at the Financial Times’ HTSI magazine. I got to know Maria last year at The Narrative Summit, where she was [on a panel that I moderated](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/history-and-culture-perceptions-of-egypt-the-narrative-summit-2025/). We drove together from Cairo to Soma Bay and became instant friends, sharing life stories, laughs and confidences. Maria has been with the FT now for 17 years and had always dreamed about working as a travel journalist. On Part 1 of our conversation, we unpack her journey traveling and living around the world. SPONSOR ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/02/AZ-Website-Logo--Transparent-.png) This episode is also brought to you by [Azza Fahmy Jewellery](https://azzafahmy.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). Maria has a sophisticated eye, an instinct for what travellers need and want, and we’ll her industry in a lot of depth on Part 2 next week, so stay tuned. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. ### My conversation with EFG Holding’s Mohamed Abdel Khabir URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/mohamed-abdel-khabir-efg-holding/ Last updated: 2025-12-23T12:04:09.000Z We’re closing out the year with a special episode with [EFG Holding](https://efghldg.com/en/?ref=at-media-group.com), and I’m joined today by the Group’s Chief Finance & Operations Officer, Mohamed Abdel Khabir. Mohamed joined the investment bank in 2008 and took on the CFO role in 2016\. Earlier this year, he took on the additional responsibility of Operations, which includes Marketing, Technology & Administration. Mohamed has been actively involved in EFG Holding’s transformation from a MENA-based investment bank to its current avatar—a leading financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and a leading investment bank in MENA. You can also listen [here](#): We’ll be back in the New Year with a bit of a refresh and new episodes with some amazing guests from across the region. In the meantime, you can catch up on episodes [you might have missed](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/) in your favourite podcast app and on [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vvAAyN9Iok&list=PLeVw5EvLV%5FwxV8MzPtnUlR-s7HocYUaCd&ref=at-media-group.com). ### Bonus: Mounir Nakhla on MNT Halan’s high-RPM expansion into Turkey, the UAE & Pakistan URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-mounir-nakhla-on-mnt-halans-high-rpm-expansion-into-turkey-the-uae-pakistan/ Last updated: 2025-12-16T08:00:51.000Z Last week, Mounir Nakhla told me about his entrepreneurial journey with MNT Halan, and how the company has risen to become of the Africa’s fastest growing start-ups. On today's bonus episode, Mounir talks to me about the strategy behind their recent expansion into 3 new territories — Turkey, the UAE & Pakistan. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) If you’ve got something out of this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. I’ll be back next week to sign off the year with a special guest from EFG Holding, I hope you can join me then! ### My conversation with Mounir Nakhla URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/mounir-nakhla/ Last updated: 2025-12-09T08:00:09.000Z I'm joined today by entrepreneur Mounir Nakhla. Mounir is the co-founder & CEO of MNT-Halan, Egypt's fintech unicorn that has served more than 8 million customers and recently expanded into the UAE, Turkey & Pakistan. Mounir launched his first company in 2010, which showed him the true potential of micro-financing to unlock economic potential. This led him to co-found MNT-Halan in 2021 with Ahmed Mohsen. Mounir is an old friend and I've always known him to be incredible disciplined and routine-based. So I wasn't surprised to see this translate into his role as a founder and CEO. He talks to me about his pivot to fintech, and how he's grown as a leader. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) If you’ve got something out of this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. On a bonus episode coming out next week, Mounir tells me about the rapid expansion of MNT-Halan into the new territories of Turkey, the UAE, and Pakistan. ### Encore, with Dr. Nadine Hachach-Haram URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-with-dr-nadine-hachach-haram-proximie/ Last updated: 2026-09-10T10:45:06.000Z I'm re-connecting today with Dr. Nadine Hachach-Haram. Dr. Nadine is the founder & CEO of Proximie, and a practicing NHS surgeon with a specialty in plastic surgery. I first spoke to Dr. Nadine [three years ago](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/dr-nadine-hachach-haram/), when she told me how she wanted to help operating rooms function more effectively with Proximie. You can also listen here: This episode is part of *Encore*, where I check-in with some of your favourite WIDN alumni. We’ll continue this segment with more of the show’s alumni, including Chef Bobby Chinn, film producer Mo Hefzy, and more, so stay tuned! ### Diving into the VC world with Karima El Hakim URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/diving-into-the-vc-world-with-karima-el-hakim/ Last updated: 2025-11-18T08:04:33.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with Karima Hakim on this episode, talking about the evolution of the private sector in Egypt and Africa, and her work specifically with Plug & Play. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) If you’ve got something out of this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. You can also catch the first part of my conversation with Karima in your favourite podcast app, or on [our website](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/karima-el-hakim/). ### My conversation with Karima El Hakim URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/karima-el-hakim-plug-and-play-egypt-africa/ Last updated: 2026-08-18T06:14:04.000Z I’m joined today by Karima El Hakim, Country Director at Plug & Play Egypt, and co-director for the company’s operations in the rest of Africa. Just as importantly, for me she’s one of the show’s biggest fans! Not only has she recommended multiple people who’ve become guests, she’s probably also the guest who came the most prepared to the interview with a detailed list of pivot points. On Part 1 of my conversation with Karima, we’re criss-crossing through both her personal and professional journey, from growing up in Egypt in a Francophone home to her pivot to technology and the investment world. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) If you’ve got something out of this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. Coming up next week on part 2, Karima tells me about her work with the private sector in Egypt and across Africa, as well as her role serving on the Economic Committee of Egypt’s National Council for women. ### My conversation with EFG Holding’s Hanaa Helmy URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/hanaa-helmy-efg-holding/ Last updated: 2025-11-04T08:00:25.000Z Today’s episode is a deep-dive with our sponsor, [EFG Holding](https://efghldg.com/en/?ref=at-media-group.com). As a long-time sponsor of the show, EFG have been with us from our single digit episode count all the way through to 100! For this special episode, I’m joined by Hanaa Helmy, Chief Corporate Sustainability and Impact Officer at EFG Holding and CEO of the EFG Foundation. Hanaa has been with the company 19 years, and has been involved with the Foundation right from its launch in 2006\. She has also been recognized by Forbes Middle East as one the region’s Top Sustainability Leaders in both 2024 and 2025. You can also listen here: In case you missed it, follow us on [Instagram](https://instagram.com/what.i.did.next/?ref=at-media-group.com) for more fun videos from our 100-episodes campaign, or leave us a comment [on our website](#ghost-comments). ### Celebrating 100 episodes! URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/celebrating-100-episodes/ Last updated: 2025-10-21T07:37:51.000Z I’m super proud and excited to share that *What I Did Next* crossed the 100 episodes milestone! So this week, I’m sitting down with our producer Chirag Desai to unpack some of the learnings and highlights of the past five years. You can also listen here: You can also follow us on [Instagram](https://instagram.com/what.i.did.next/?ref=at-media-group.com) for more fun videos from our 100-episodes campaign, or leave us a comment [on our website](#ghost-comments)! ### Azzam Fakhreddin on getting started in hospitality & his love for football URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/azzam-fakhreddin-on-getting-started-in-hospitality-his-love-for-football/ Last updated: 2025-10-14T08:00:08.000Z This week, we’re continuing my conversation with Azzam Fakhreddin, where he tells me about shifting focus to economics under the mentorship of Dr. Galal Amin and getting starting in the family hospitality business. Azzam also tells me about his involvement with the Jordan football team, which just qualified for its first FIFA World Cup in 2026. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I’m also excited to share that *What I Did Next* just completed **100** episodes! Next week, I’m sitting down with our producer Chirag Desai to celebrate this milestone and unpack some of the learnings. ### My conversation with Azzam Fakhreddin URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/azzam-fakhreddin/ Last updated: 2025-10-07T10:10:39.000Z I’m joined today by Azzam Fakhreddin, a name familiar to many across the Middle East for his work in the hospitality industry. On Part 1 of our conversation, Azzam tells me about his involvement in two significant projects, the book *Palestine, Memories of 1948* and the feature film *Palestine 36*, which is Palestine’s official entry to the 2026 Oscars. It stars iconic actors Jeremy Irons and Liam Cunningham and will be premiering in London later this month. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) If you’ve got something out of this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. Coming up next week on part 2, Azzam tells me about getting started in his family hospitality business and his involvement with the Jordan football club. ### The future AI world, with Mo Gawdat, Ramy Youssef, Tarek Nour & Omar Elsahy URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/the-future-ai-world-with-mo-gawdat-ramy-youssef-tarek-nour-omar-elsahy/ Last updated: 2025-09-23T08:10:07.000Z Last week, tech ethicist Dr. Mona Hamdy unpacked some of the philosophical and ethical elements of AI. This is a topic that has come up many times on *What I Did Next*, so on today’s episode, I’m connecting the dots from some of our previous episodes on the philosophical, ethical and practical implications of our future AI world. You’ll hear from author & AI expert **Mo Gawdat** on how we all need to be better role models for this nascent technology, actor **Ramy Youssef** on some of the implications for creators and filmmakers, Amazon’s **Omar Elsahy** talks about some of its practical applications and ad-legend **Tarek Nour** asks some philosophical questions about our AI future. What do you think about the future of AI? Let me know your thoughts [on this episode](https://www.at-media-group.com/#ghost-comments), or leave us a comment on [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsW51Dd3BcQ&ref=at-media-group.com) or on [Instagram](https://instagram.com/what.i.did.next/?ref=at-media-group.com). ### Dr. Mona Hamdy on the role of AI in society & its ethical implications URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/dr-mona-hamdy-on-the-role-of-ai-in-society-its-ethical-implications/ Last updated: 2025-09-16T09:34:13.000Z This week, we’re continuing my conversation with Dr. Mona Hamdy to unpack the world of AI. We talk about the ethical implications of technology, and the need to close the gap between profit-driven AI development and our needs as a society. She also tells me about her work with Anomaly, the appropriately-named ‘Bitcoins and Birkins’ club and upcoming launch of iConnections Middle East. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) If you’ve got something out of this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. We’ll continue the AI conversation next week, where I’ll be bringing together conversations about this that I’ve had with people from different industries, including the one and only Mo Gawdat, actor and writer Ramy Youssef and advertising legend Tarek Nour. ### Dr. Mona Hamdy URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/dr-mona-hamdy/ Last updated: 2025-09-16T06:57:07.000Z Artificial Intelligence gets bandied about by everyone in just about everything today, and I’ve been wanting to unpack the opportunities and challenges the future world holds for us. So today, I’m delighted to welcome technology ethicist Dr. Mona Hamdy to the show. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I met Mona thanks to one of the show’s first guests and our good friend, [Dina El-Mofty](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/dina-el-mofty/). Mona is currently focused on bridging the gap between emerging technologies like AI and putting this to work for us, and not the other way around. She is the Managing Director at [iConnections](https://iconnections.io/?ref=at-media-group.com) Middle East & Chief Ethics Advisor at Silicon Valley-based Saudi startup [aiXplain](https://aixplain.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). Mona is an open, engaging and dynamic person and our conversation, like all great connections, went off along different tangents. On Part 1 of our conversation this week, we talk about her pivots, and how she found herself at this unique intersection of technology and human dignity. If you’ve got something out of this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. Coming up next week on Part 2, I pick Mona’s brain on some of my questions on the future world of AI: have we unleashed something we don’t really understand? How does the emerging world prioritise its technology adoption? ### Double-Take: Giving Back, with Sir Magdi Yacoub and META’s Fares Akkad URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/double-take-giving-back-with-sir-magdi-yacoub-and-metas-fares-akkad/ Last updated: 2025-09-02T09:00:52.000Z Welcome to the first episode of a new segment of the show that we’re calling Double-Take, where I take a deep-dive into a single topic and connect the dots between some of our best conversations. I’ve often shared that shedding a positive light on our region has become an important by-product of the show. So today I wanted to highlight two guests who instantly come to mind when talking about giving back—the incredible heart surgeon, Sir Magdi Yacoub and META’s Regional Director, Fares Akkad. When I spoke to Fares in late 2023, he had just come back from visiting the Za’atari Refugee Camp, and the establishment of the META digital literacy program. And while Professor Yacoub already had a distinguished career as a cardiothoracic surgeon, he’s leaving behind an even bigger legacy through his charity, Chain of Hope, building long-term impact on the lives of the children in developing communities. I’ll be back next week with a new exciting guest from the world of AI, I hope you can join me then! ### How I prepare for interviews URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/how-i-prepare-for-interviews/ Last updated: 2025-08-19T08:00:19.000Z Today I’m sharing the answer to another question I’m asked quite often: “how do you prepare for your interviews?” Watch on YouTube: ### Omar El Akkad URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/omar-el-akkad/ Last updated: 2025-08-05T08:43:54.000Z I’m joined on the show by today by author and commentator Omar El Akkad. Omar’s first two books were novels—*American War* (2017) and *What Strange Paradise* (2021). But it is his latest book, *One day, Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This*, that put him on my radar. This book is perhaps the most important book I’ve read in the last couple of years, as it brought together all that I have been thinking, and feeling, about Western Liberalism. I talk to Omar about the larger themes that led to him writing the book, and his own questions of identity as a result of his experiences as an Arab writer in the West. Our conversation was powerful, intense and thought-provoking. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) You can also watch the episode on YouTube: If you’ve got something out of this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/omar-el-akkad?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. ### Encore, with media powerhouse Amy Mowafi URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-with-media-powerhouse-amy-mowafi/ Last updated: 2025-07-29T08:22:48.000Z Today I’m re-connecting with [Amy Mowafi](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/amy-mowafi/) as part of WIDN Encore, where I check-in with your favourite alumni guests. Since we last spoke, Amy has been leading and participating in various must-attend events across Egypt. She’s also been returning to her first love, writing, with her [⁠Substack⁠](https://byamymowafi.substack.com/?utm%5Fsource=at-media&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-encore). Watch on YouTube: You can also catch my previous Encore conversations with adventurer Omar Samra, designers Nada Debs and Nadine Kanso, and entrepreneur Ahmed Alfi in your podcast apps or on [our website](https://www.at-media-group.com/encore/). ### How I choose my guests URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/how-i-choose-guests/ Last updated: 2025-07-23T05:44:29.000Z Another question I get asked often is “how do you select your guests?” Join me for a look behind-the-scenes at how I select my guests and some of the criteria involved. Watch on YouTube: ### Farrah El Dibany on her transformative journey playing Carmen URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/farrah-el-dibany-on-her-transformative-journey-playing-carmen/ Last updated: 2025-07-15T08:00:53.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with the talented mezzo-soprano Farrah Al Dibany, exploring the world of opera. Farrah tells me about her experiences and challenges of her work, including her transformative journey playing *Carmen*, and her commitment to introducing classical music to broader audiences. She also tells me about her artistic choices on stage, and how she prepares for her roles. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) You can also watch the episode on YouTube: I’ll be back in a couple of weeks with Amy Mowafi, who returns to the show for the next edition of *WIDN Encore*. I hope you can join me then! ### My conversation with mezzo-soprano Farrah El Dibany URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/farrah-el-dibany/ Last updated: 2025-07-08T08:09:11.000Z I’m excited to welcome mezzo-soprano Farrah El Dibany to the show! I had the opportunity to see Farrah perform in-person a couple of years ago, at the Manial Palace for Prince Abbas Hilmi’s museum festival. She has a powerful voice and an incredible presence on stage. We covered her journey from discovering her passion for singing at 14, to her incredible performances, including the FIFA World Cup Final in Qatar and the celebration of the re-election of French President Emmanuel Macron. Farrah is dedicated and disciplined as only a performance singer or athlete can be. We also spoke of the nuances of being an opera singer and the challenges and joys her career brings her. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) You can also watch the episode on YouTube: Coming up on part 2 of our conversation next week, I dig into all things opera with Farrah. She tells me about the nuances of being a mezzo-soprano, her famous roles including *Carmen* and *Dalida*, and how she prepares for them. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/ayman-tamer?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. ### 2025 so far on ‘What I Did Next’ URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/2025-so-far-on-what-i-did-next/ Last updated: 2026-08-21T03:34:06.000Z We’re only halfway through the year and it’s already been an exciting one for *What I Did Next* so far. So this week, my producer, Chirag, and I decided to do a check-in and recap the last six months. We talk about the inspiring conversations, guests and events that have made up the year so far, as well as a look at what’s coming up. I also share a sneak peek into our next guest episode, so listen in to find out! SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) You can also watch the episode on YouTube: And join me again next week for a new conversation with a new guest from the fascinating world of opera! ### How I started the ‘What I Did Next’ podcast URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/how-i-started-the-what-i-did-next-podcast/ Last updated: 2025-06-24T07:45:54.000Z I’m often asked how I got started with the podcast. On a special solo episode this week, I’m taking you behind the scenes to tell you how and why I started What I Did Next, and how it came together. Watch on YouTube: ### Ayman Tamer URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/aym/ Last updated: 2025-06-10T08:00:20.000Z My guest today is Ayman Tamer, Chairman of the Tamer Group, a third-generation business with a 100-year history in Saudi Arabia. Ayman’s grandfather opened the first pharmacy in the Arab peninsula in 1922 and it has evolved into one of the largest healthcare companies in the region today, with over $2.5 billion in revenue. Ayman tells me about his own journey within the context of the family business, from going to boarding school at the tender age of six to returning to Saudi Arabia in 1985. Its clear from our conversation that for Ayman, family is everything and family weaves through the company, and is its heart and soul. We talk in great detail the growth of his family business alongside the development of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, especially in the context of Vision 2030. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) You can also watch the episode on [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPYw4zGbzSQ&ref=at-media-group.com): If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/ayman-tamer?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. ### History and Culture: Perceptions of Egypt (The Narrative Summit 2025) URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/history-and-culture-perceptions-of-egypt-the-narrative-summit-2025/ Last updated: 2025-06-11T06:24:08.000Z A few weeks ago, *What I Did Next* partnered with the 2025 edition of *The Narrative Summit* whichwas held at the breathtaking Soma Bay.Today, I’m delighted to share my panel discussion where we explored perceptions of Egypt through a historical and cultural lens, a subject that is close to my heart. I was joined on the panel by historian **Mahmoud Sabit**, award-winning historian and broadcaster **Bethany Hughes**, multidisciplinary artist **Louis Barthélemy**, creative director **Zach Sherif**, and the FT’s *How to Spend it* magazine's Travel Editor, **Maria Schollenbarger**. Watch on YouTube: These amazing panelists and I and met a few times in the run-up to the summit to discuss the different perspectives and points of view. We knew we were addressing a room full of people who could actually implement concrete ideas and so the panelists made sure to provide real-world success stories and examples that could be implemented in Egypt. Beyond the work itself, we all had such a blast putting this together and on a personal level, I was thrilled to meet these incredible experts, at the top of their game, who were such brilliant communicators. From reclaiming our narrative beyond the pharaohs, to celebrating craftsmanship, beauty, and global collaborations, this panel was a powerful reminder that culture is not just heritage, it’s our future. ### Encore: Ali Ali URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-ali-ali/ Last updated: 2025-05-27T09:52:02.000Z Welcome again to *What I Did Next Encore*, where I check-in with some of your favourite alumni guests. For this episode, I’m re-connecting with one of the guests from our first-ever season, advertising director Ali Ali. He catches me up on what he’s been up to since we last spoke, his short film, Smokey Eyes, and exploring production in Saudi Arabia. You can also watch the episode on YouTube: If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to hear from you. You can [leave us a comment](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments) and tell us more. ### Bonus: Fatenn Mostafa Kanafani on navigating long-distance parenting URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-fatenn-mostafa-kanafani-on-navigating-long-distance-parenting/ Last updated: 2025-05-20T08:19:00.000Z On this members’ bonus episode with Fatenn Mostafa Kanafani, we talk about our contrasting parenting styles and how she navigated long-distance parenting with her husband. We also talk briefly about our own childhoods, where politics and economics were frequent dinner-table conversations. You can get access to this and all of our bonus episodes by [becoming a member](https://www.at-media-group.com/#/portal/signup). You can get started with a two-week free trial and access to all of our current and upcoming bonus episodes. [Start Your Free Trial Today ](#/portal/signup) _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### “Reclaim our narrative,” Fatenn Mostafa Kanafani on her work to document modern Egyptian artists URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-fatenn-mostafa-kanafani-on-her-work-to-document-modern-egyptian-artists/ Last updated: 2025-05-13T08:01:00.000Z On this week’s bonus episode, Fatenn Mostafa Kanafani tells me about her work in documenting, codifying, and cataloging her research in art. She’s contributed a chapter in *Daughters of the Nile*, authored *Modern Art in Egypt*, and is now working on a third book. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) You can also watch it on YouTube: We’ve got one more bonus episode for members coming out next week where Fatenn and I talk about parenting—from our contrasting parenting styles to how she successfully navigated long-distance parenting with her husband. You can get our members’ bonus episodes by [subscribing](https://www.at-media-group.com/#/portal/signup/) to the show. You can unlock all of our previous bonus episodes during your two-week free trial. You can also subscribe on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-i-did-next/id1549640242?itsct=podcast%5Fbox&itscg=30200&ls=1&at=1001l36oh&ct=widn-s6&ref=at-media-group.com). [Start your 2-week free trial now ](https://www.at-media-group.com/#/portal/signup/) If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. ### Fatenn Mostafa Kanafani URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/fatenn-mostafa-kanafani/ Last updated: 2025-05-06T08:00:10.000Z I’m joined on the show today by gallerist, author, and archivist, Fatenn Mostafa Kanafani. Fatenn has led a life full of twists and turns, and we bonded on this, comparing notes on our early years in Europe. Her career trajectory has seen her go from being a successful marketer with Procter & Gamble to being instrumental in the success of the relaunch of Ahram Beverages, leading to its eventual sale to Heineken in 2002\. Fatenn then turned her attention to modern Egyptian art and launched *Art Talks*, a gallery as well as a forum for discussion on all aspects of art. She is now working on a third book in a trilogy looking at Egyptian modern art and artists. She talks to me in great detail about the threads connecting art, politics, and her identity in shaping who she is today. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) You can also watch the episode on [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPYw4zGbzSQ&ref=at-media-group.com): On a bonus episode out next week, I talk to Fatenn about her work in documenting, codifying, and cataloging her research in art. She's contributed a chapter in the book *Daughters of the Nile*, authored *Modern Art in Egypt*, and is now working on a third book. You can find out all about this on the bonus episode, so stay tuned. We also have a new *Encore* episode with advertising superstar Ali Ali coming out at the end of the month. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. ### Encore: Nadine Kanso URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-nadine-kanso/ Last updated: 2025-04-29T08:00:05.000Z Welcome back to What I Did Next *Encore*, where I check-in with some of your favourite alumni guests. On today’s episode, I’m reconnecting with pioneering Arab designer, Nadine Kanso, founder of jewellery brand BilArabi. Nadine tells me what’s been happening since our last conversation two years ago, including her partnership with Berluti, and staying authentic in an influencer-dominated world online. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to hear from you. You can [leave us a comment](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments) and tell us more. We’ll continue this segment each month with more of the show’s alumni, so stay tuned. And if you haven’t already done so, you can also listen to my *Encore* conversations with [Omar Samra](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/widn-encore-omar-samra/), [Nada Debs](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-nada-debs/) and [Ahmed Alfi](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-ahmed-alfi/). ### ”Catch the (aqua) mango!” Omar Hilal on his award-winning ads and his upcoming movie URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/catch-the-aqua-mango-omar-hilal-on-his-award-winning-ads-and-his-upcoming-movie/ Last updated: 2025-04-15T08:00:14.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with award-winning ad director and filmmaker Omar Hilal. This week, he tells me about three key projects: the hilarious Aqua Mangos ad, the ground-breaking Royal Jordanian Ad and a sneak-peek into his upcoming film. SPONSORED by EFG Holding This episode is brought to you by EFG Holding, a financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa. If you haven’t already, you can listen to my [full episode with Omar Hilal](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-conversation-with-award-winning-ad-man-filmmaker-omar-hilal/), where he tells me about his life’s pivots, starting out as a photojournalist to award-winning ad director to filmmaker. In a couple of weeks, we’ll have our next *Encore* episode with jewellery designer and icon Nadine Kanso. Our **Encore* episodes are members-only, so if you [subscribe](https://www.at-media-group.com/#/portal/signup/) now, you can unlock all of our previous bonus episodes right away during your free trial, and get our upcoming **Encore* episodes as well. You can also subscribe on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-i-did-next/id1549640242?itsct=podcast%5Fbox&itscg=30200&ls=1&at=1001l36oh&ct=widn-s6&ref=at-media-group.com). If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. ### Omar Hilal URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-conversation-with-award-winning-ad-man-filmmaker-omar-hilal/ Last updated: 2025-04-08T08:19:30.000Z I’m delighted to be joined by award-winning ad director & filmmaker Omar Hilal as this month’s guest. Omar is one of those people who discovered that he wanted to become a director very early in life. He started out as a photo-journalist and went on to become an accomplished ad director, with stand-out ads such as the Aqua Mangos ad for Nestle and the ground-breaking Royal Jordanian Ad in his portfolio. The ads he’s worked on have won more than 50 awards, including 5 Grand Prix. In 2023, he switched gears to release his directorial debut, *Voy! Voy! Voy!*, which went on to win 16 awards globally and was Egypt’s official selection to the Oscars. Listen in as he tells me about his life’s twists and turns from ad-man to film director and everything in between. 💡 This episode is brought to you by [EFG Holding](https://www.efghldg.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), a financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa. You can also watch the episode here: On a special bonus episode next week, Omar tells me about three key projects: the hilarious Aqua Mangos ad, the ground-breaking Royal Jordanian Ad and a sneak-peek into his upcoming film, so stay tuned! And in a couple of weeks, we’ll have our next Encore episode with designer and icon Nadine Kanso. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. ### The Narrative Summit 2025: My conversation with Rawya Mansour URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/the-narrative-summit-2025-my-conversation-with-rawya-mansour/ Last updated: 2025-04-01T07:46:12.000Z This week, I’m joined by Rawya Mansour, Chairwoman of RAMSCO Egypt and Oasis Technologies Monaco, for a special episode as part of our collaboration with *The Narrative Summit* 2025. Rawya is a pioneer of sustainable development and regenerative agriculture, including shifting away from chemical polymer fertilisers towards green charcoal. We’ll get into the pivotal moments that led her on this journey as well as her involvement with *The Narrative Summit*. You can also watch the episode on YouTube: The theme for the 2025 edition of *The Narrative Summit* is Egypt reset – to redefine Egypt’s global standing by showcasing its economic resilience, investment potential and cultural dynamism. The summit will focus on three key pillars—financial accessibility, tourism and hospitality, and the sports ecosystem. The Narrative summit will take place from April 7 to 9 against the breathtaking backdrop of Somabay on the Red Sea coast. There are a number of *What I Did Next* alumni its many speakers from the worlds of business, government, heritage and culture, sports and the creative industry. I’m also looking forward to moderating a panel, and you can also [follow me on Instagram](https://instagram.com/malak%5Ffouad%5Fofficial?ref=at-media-group.com) for coverage from the event. ### Encore: Ahmed Alfi URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-ahmed-alfi/ Last updated: 2025-05-16T11:42:45.000Z Welcome back to What I Did Next *Encore*, our members’ segment where I check-in with some of your favourite alumni guests. I’m delighted to be joined for this episode by entrepreneur & investor Ahmed Alfi, who was also the show’s first-ever guest! Back then, in early 2021, he told me about his life’s pivot points and how he’s investing in the tech ecosystem in the region. I caught up with him about the evolution of his role in the 4 years since that conversation. You can listen to the episode here: ![audio-thumbnail](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/media/2025/03/WIDN-x-Ahmed-Alfi-v1-2_thumb.png) WIDN Encore: Ahmed Alfi 0:00 /1490.4685714285715 1× Or watch it on [YouTube](https://youtu.be/XIK8SRmKac4?ref=at-media-group.com): If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to hear from you. You can [leave us a comment](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments) and tell us more. ### My guest appearance on ‘Gems of Arabia’ about Arab Representation in Media with Becky Anderson, Faisal Abbas & host Hatem AlAkeel URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-guest-appearance-on-gems-of-arabia-about-arab-representation-in-media-with-becky-anderson-faisal-abbas-host-hatem-alakeel/ Last updated: 2025-03-20T07:02:43.000Z I’m excited to share a special episode from the podcast, *Gems of Arabia* about Arab Representation in Media. The episode, hosted by WIDN alum Hatem Al Akeel, was recorded a few weeks ago at the CNN Academy in Abu Dhabi in front of a live audience of the Academy’s latest cohort of budding journalists. We were joined by another WIDN alum Becky Anderson, Managing Editor of CNN Abu Dhabi, and Arab News’ Editor-in-Chief Faisal Abbas. This was a great conversation about breaking stereotypes, how Arab voices are represented, and the importance of re-shaping and owning our narrative on the world stage. I hope you find the conversation as insightful as I did. You can also watch the episode on YouTube: Next week, I’ll be back with a new *Encore* episode with the show’s first guest, Ahmed Alfi. I caught up with him about the evolution of his work and life in the four years since that first conversation. ### Nouf Al Moneef on the evolution of Noor Riyadh as a festival of light and art URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/nouf-al-moneef-on-the-evolution-of-noor-riyadh-as-a-festival-of-light-and-art/ Last updated: 2025-03-11T08:00:08.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with interior architect Nouf Al Moneef, Director of the Noor Riyadh festival. On today’s episode, Nouf tells me about the evolution of Noor Riyadh, why they chose light as a theme in addition to art, and about her own design aesthetic. 💡 This episode is brought to you by [EFG Holding](https://www.efghldg.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), a financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa. You can also watch this on YouTube ### My conversation with Noor Riyadh’s Nouf Al Moneef URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/nouf-al-moneef/ Last updated: 2025-03-11T05:00:26.000Z I’m delighted to welcome Nouf Al Moneef, Director of Noor Riyadh, to the show this week. Noor Riyadh has now welcomed more than 3 million visitors and hosted artworks by hundreds of Saudi, regional and international artists. Nouf also continues to help grow the conversation about art and design on social media, although she, like me, is not a fan of the word influencer. We both take a more organic and authentic approach to reaching our respective audiences. Nouf has garnered a huge following and has had an obvious impact on how the KSA is perceived and she is a wonderful ambassador for culture, the arts and her country as a whole. 💡 This episode is brought to you by [EFG Holding](https://www.efghldg.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), a financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa. You can also watch the episode here: Next week, I talk to Nouf about Noor Riyadh’s focus on light as a medium and what it takes to curate each year's festival. In a couple of weeks, we’ll have our next Encore episode with the show’s very first guest, entrepreneur and investor Ahmed Alfi. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. ### Encore: Nada Debs URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/encore-nada-debs/ Last updated: 2025-05-16T11:43:04.000Z We’re continuing our new segment, *Encore*—where I’m checking-in with some of your favourite WIDN alumni—with Nada Debs. I first spoke to Nada in 2021 about her journey growing up in Japan, living in the US, the UK and finally Lebanon. Since then, she’s moved to Dubai, where she continues to push the envelope using traditional craft techniques, while always adding a modern twist. You can listen to the episode here: ![audio-thumbnail](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/media/2025/02/WIDN-x-Nada-Debs---Encore-v2_thumb.png) WIDN Encore: Nada Debs 0:00 /2030.9681632653062 1× Or watch it on YouTube: If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to hear from you. You can [leave us a comment](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments) and tell us more. ### Khalid Abdalla on portraying Dodi Fayed URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/khalid-abdalla-on-portraying-dodi-fayed/ Last updated: 2025-04-01T07:53:24.000Z On this members’ bonus episode with actor Khalid Abdalla, I speak to him about his process as an actor, and how he prepared to portray Dodi Fayed on *The Crown*. As a member of the show, you also have access to all of our previous bonus episodes and our new segment, WIDN Encore, where I check-in with some of your favourite alumni guests. My check-in with Omar Samra is out now, and stay tuned for my chats with Nada Debs coming out next week! _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Khalid Abdalla on the four year journey that led to ‘Nowhere’ URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/khalid-abdalla-on-the-four-year-journey-that-led-to-nowhere/ Last updated: 2025-04-01T07:52:30.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with actor Khalid Abdalla this week, going behind the curtain into his solo play, *Nowhere.* I saw the play when I was in the UK last October and was personally moved by his performance. On this episode, Khalid tells me about the journey that led to him writing *Nowhere*, and the impact of his work. 💡 This episode is brought to you by [EFG Holding](https://www.efghldg.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), a financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa. On a bonus episode for members out next week, we’ll dig into his process as an actor, and how he prepared for his role as Dodi Fayed on The Crown. If you haven’t tuned in, you can also catch the first part of my conversation with Khalid here, or on YouTube as well. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. ### My conversation with Khalid Abdalla URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/khalid-abdalla/ Last updated: 2025-04-01T07:50:24.000Z I’m excited to welcome actor Khalid Abdalla to *What I Did Next* this week! Khalid first became known to many of us with his incredible role in *The Kiterunner*. More recently, he was on our screens as Dodi Fayed on *The Crown*. But beyond all his subtle and challenging roles, I was personally moved by his stage performance in his solo play, *Nowhere*, which I saw in the UK last October. I sat down with Khalid in December and we covered so many topics that we’re bringing this to you as a two-part episode. On our main episode today, Khalid tells me about his journey, including his performances in *The Kite Runner*, *The Square*, *The Crown* and *Nowhere*, as well as how he views them through the lens of his own identity and how this has evolved now that he’s a father of two. 💡 This episode is brought to you by [EFG Holding](https://www.efghldg.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), a financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa. You can also watch the episode here: Next week, we’ll go behind the curtain into *Nowhere* itself, how the play came to be and the impact of his performance. And finally as a bonus episode for our members, we’ll dig into his process as an actor, and how he prepared for his role as Dodi Fayed. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. ### Bonus: Farida Osman on how she prepares for races URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-farida-osman/ Last updated: 2025-01-21T07:00:57.000Z On this bonus episode for members, champion swimmer Farida Osman tells me how she prepares for races, and how meditation helps her stay focused. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Farida Osman URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/farida-osman/ Last updated: 2025-01-21T06:39:24.000Z I’m excited to welcome Farida Osman as the first athlete on the show! She’s a 3-time Olympian, 3-time world bronze medalist and holds senior national records for butterfly, freestyle and backstroke events. These are all incredible achievements. 💡 This episode is brought to you by [EFG Holding](https://www.efghldg.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), a leading financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa. I think we can learn so much from athletes—from their dedication and commitment, to their fitness and how they handle the pressure. Farida told me how she’s been working on her mental fitness and realised it’s something she was missing in her amateur days. She’s already working to help build out the swimming ecosystem in Egypt and open up more opportunities for anyone who wants to pursue it as a career. Farida is such a natural, positive person who is authentic and passionate about her sport. She’s a wonderful ambassador for swimming and an incredible role model for young sportspeople who can look to her and see that anything is possible. On our bonus episode out for members next week, Farida tells me how she’s prepares for races and the power of meditation. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. ### WIDN Encore: Omar Samra URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/widn-encore-omar-samra/ Last updated: 2025-07-23T06:33:56.000Z I’m super excited to kick-off 2025 with one of our new segments called *WIDN Encore*, where I’ll be checking in with some of your favourite *What I Did Next* alumni. My first guest is adventurer, entrepreneur, and podcaster Omar Samra. I first spoke to Omar in 2021 about his company, *Wild Guanabana,* and his epic maritime challenge with Omar Nour which they parlayed into an award-winning documentary, *Beyond the Raging Sea*. We’re picking up right where we left off and Omar tells me what he’s been upto since. You can also watch the episode on YouTube: 💡 A reminder that these **Encore* episodes will be members-only going forward, so if you’d like to hear from your favourite alumni, including Ahmed Alfi, Nada Debs, Ali Ali and Amy Mowafi, [subscribe now](https://www.at-media-group.com/#/portal/signup/) so you can get this and all of our bonus episodes throughout the year! If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to hear from you. You can [leave us a comment](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments) and tell us more. ### Wrapping up 2024 URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/wrapping-up-2024/ Last updated: 2024-12-17T08:00:18.000Z Thank you for joining me for another exciting year at *What I Did Next*. This week, I’m joined by the show’s producer, Chirag Desai, to look back at how quickly the year has gone by, and what is to come in 2025. 💡 This episode is brought to you by [EFG Holding](https://www.efghldg.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). For 40 years, EFG Holding has been realising more, for clients, investors, businesses, communities and individuals. See the world differently, and realize more with EFG Holding. Thank you for listening (and watching!) our episodes, for sharing your feedback and [comments](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/malak-el-baba/). We’re excited to bring you more guests in 2025\. Until then, you can always catch-up on [episodes you’ve missed](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/), and follow us on Instagram, LinkedIn and on TikTok for updates. Happy Holidays! ### “You realize your role is serving the team more than directing them” Omar Elsahy on leadership, automation & AI URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-omar-elsahy/ Last updated: 2024-12-10T08:00:45.000Z On this bonus episode exclusively for members, I’m continuing my conversation with Omar ElSahy, General Manager for Amazon Egypt. Omar tells me about Amazon’s work culture, and how they’re integrating automation and AI into their day-to-day operations. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Omar Elsahy URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-conversation-with-omar-elsahy/ Last updated: 2024-12-03T12:36:29.000Z I’m delighted to welcome Omar Elsahy to the show this week. Omar is General Manager for Amazon in Egypt, overseeing 2,500 employees in the country as well as after-market services across the region. He told me about his early years in the US and Egypt, starting a number of businesses with his brother before pivoting to e-commerce with Souq.com. I enjoyed getting to know Omar through this conversation, and also got some great insights into the way he thinks as a leader, and how Amazon approaches innovation. 💡 This episode is brought to you by [EFG Holding](https://www.efghldg.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). For 40 years, EFG Holding has been realising more, for clients, investors, businesses, communities and individuals. See the world differently, and realize more with EFG Holding. You can also watch the episode on YouTube: On our bonus episode for members out next week, Omar tells me about his work at Amazon, how they build their culture and how they plan to stay relevant and innovate in the world of AI. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to hear from you. You can [leave us a comment](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments) and tell us more. ### ”It’s very important to ask for advice and mentorship” Sarah Beydoun on her learnings from building Sarah’s Bag URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/i-had-a-complete-immersion-in-the-culture-and-experience-of-saudi-arabia-haitham-mattar-on-the-evolution-of-ksa-tourism-copy/ Last updated: 2024-11-26T09:00:49.000Z On this bonus episode, I'm continuing my conversation with Sarah Beydoun, the inspiring founder of *Sarah’s Bag*. She tells me about maintaining their incredible quality standards while staying true to their social mission, their collaboration with the fashion brand, Chloé, and the importance of mentorship. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Sarah Beydoun URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/sarah-beydoun/ Last updated: 2024-11-19T08:14:04.000Z 💡 We recorded this conversation before the conflict began in Lebanon earlier this year. Sarah Beydoun is the Founder and Creative Director of *Sarah’s Bag*, a social enterprise that produces bespoke luxury accessories and clothing. She tells me how her company was born out of a University thesis, how they continue to empower women in spite of the never-ending turmoil afflicting Lebanon, and her son’s autism diagnosis. I find her story so inspiring and moving. You can also watch the conversation here: On our bonus episode for members out next week, Sarah tells me more about their operations, how they maintain such a high degree of quality control and about their collaboration with Chloé. ### A little more with Louis Barthélemy URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-louis-barthelemy/ Last updated: 2024-11-12T08:00:38.000Z On our bonus episode exclusively for members this week, Louis Barthélemy tells me how he creates his incredible work, and some of his inspirations. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Louis Barthélemy URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/louis-barthelemy/ Last updated: 2024-11-05T08:09:09.000Z I’m delighted to welcome multidisciplinary artist and design Louis Barthélemy to the show this week. Louis designs beautiful works of art, from tapestry to rugs to stained glass and works on paper. He is a passionate exponent of craftsmanship and turns to ancient and trusted techniques to execute his work. After studying fashion design at Central Saint Martins, Louis worked at Dior before pivoting away from the fashion world after the public departure of designer John Galliano. We talk about Louis’ disillusionment with the fashion industry, and how a cancer diagnosis led Louis to the Middle East. 💡 This episode is brought to you by [EFG Holding](https://www.efghldg.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). For 40 years, EFG Holding has been realising more, for clients, investors, businesses, communities and individuals. See the world differently, and realize more with EFG Holding. You can also watch the episode here: On our bonus episode for members out next week, Louis tells me about his work philosophy and how he collaborates closely with craftsmen and women while developing his projects. ### My conversation with Yasmine & Farida Khamis URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/newsletter/my-conversation-with-yasmine-farida-khamis/ Last updated: 2024-10-22T08:06:05.000Z This week, I’m excited to sit down with two guests today and take a deep dive into their lives’ most pivotal moments. Yasmine and Farida Khamis are continuing the business legacy left by their father, Mohammed Farida Khamis. He launched Oriental Weavers in 1979, which has grown to become one of the world’s largest carpet manufacturers, employing more than 20,000 people today. Since his passing in 2020, Yasmine took over as Chair of the Board, while her two siblings joined her as board members. Farida chairs the petrochemical business and looks after the British University in Egypt. 💡 This episode is brought to you by [EFG Holding](https://www.efghldg.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). For 40 years, EFG Holding has been realising more, for clients, investors, businesses, communities and individuals. See the world differently, and realize more with EFG Holding. As an only child, I'm always curious to peek behind the invisible veil that hangs between siblings. This is the third time I’ve spoken to sisters who also double up as business partners. Fatma and Amina Ghaly, now the second generation of luxury brand Azza Fahmy, joined me in 2019, while Mounaz and Aya Abdel Raouf, the sisters behind Okhtein were guests last year. And just like them the Khamis sisters have developed their own way of finding balance between work and family. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to hear from you. You can [leave us a comment](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments), or leave us a review in [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-i-did-next/id1549640242?itsct=podcast%5Fbox&itscg=30200&ls=1&at=1001l36oh&ct=widn-s8&ref=at-media-group.com) or on Spotify. ### Yasmine & Farida Khamis URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/yasmine-farida-khamis/ Last updated: 2024-10-22T08:05:21.000Z Yasmine and Farida Khamis are continuing the legacy left by their father, Mohammed Farid Khamis. He launched Oriental Weavers in 1979, which grew to become one of the world’s largest carpet manufacturers. Yasmine took over as Chair of its Board since his passing in 2020, while her two siblings joined her as board members. Farida chairs the Petrochemical business and looks after the British University in Egypt. 💡 This episode is brought to you by [EFG Holding](https://www.efghldg.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). For 40 years, EFG Holding has been realising more, for clients, investors, businesses, communities and individuals. See the world differently, and realize more with EFG Holding. You can also watch the episode here: ### “I had a complete immersion in the culture and experience of Saudi Arabia” Haitham Mattar on the evolution of KSA Tourism URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-haitham-mattar-on-the-evolution-of-saudi-arabia-tourism/ Last updated: 2024-10-15T08:00:50.000Z On our members-only bonus episode, Haitham Mattar, Managing Director for India, Middle East and Africa at the Intercontinental Hotel Group tells me about his work as Senior Advisor to the Saudi Ministry of Tourism. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### My conversation with IHG’s Haitham Mattar URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/newsletter/my-conversation-with-ihgs-haitham-mattar/ Last updated: 2024-10-08T08:00:04.000Z I’m delighted to welcome Haitham Mattar, MD at the Intercontinental Hotel Group for India, Middle East & Africa to *What I Did Next* this week. In addition to working for global hotel giants such as the Marriott and Hilton along with the Intercontinental of course, Haitham has also led tourism for the Governments of Ras Al Khaimah and Saudi Arabia. His story is one of the sheer individual will, grit and resilience, starting with his first job at the age of 17\. He also tells me about the importance of maintaining and nurturing relationships and how he’s now trying to get new generations interested in hospitality. On our bonus episode for members out next week, we’ll dig into Haitham’s work as Sr. Advisor to the Saudi Arabia Minister of Tourism and how he’s a data junkie—he wears three different devices to measures his vitals! If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to hear from you. You can [leave us a comment](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar?ref=at-media-group.com#ghost-comments), or leave us a review in [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-i-did-next/id1549640242?itsct=podcast%5Fbox&itscg=30200&ls=1&at=1001l36oh&ct=widn-s8&ref=at-media-group.com) or on Spotify. ### Haitham Mattar URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar/ Last updated: 2024-10-08T06:14:24.000Z Haitham Mattar is the Managing Director of the Intercontinental Hotel Group for India, Middle East & Africa. Haitham has had a distinguished career working for global hotel giants as well as leading tourism for the Governments of Ras Al Khaimah and Saudi Arabia. His story is one of individual will, grit and resilience starting from his first job at 17\. He tells me about the importance of maintaining and nurturing relationships all his life and how he’s now trying to get new generations interested in hospitality. Listen here: You can also watch the episode on YouTube: ### “If you don’t have a level of self-doubt, you’re in trouble” HRH Nourah Al Faisal on building Nuun URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-hrh-nourah-al-faisal/ Last updated: 2024-10-01T07:40:10.000Z On our members-only bonus episode Her Royal Highness Nourah Al Faisal tells me about the inspiration behind her first jewellery collection, and how her company, Nuun, navigated the pandemic. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### HRH Nourah Al Faisal URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/hrh-nourah-al-faisal/ Last updated: 2024-09-27T11:36:54.000Z I’m excited to kick off a new season of *What I Did Next* with Her Royal Highness Nourah Al Faisal. As someone who grew up in Saudi, I continue to be impressed by the transformation taking place across the country. I wanted to talk to Princess Nourah about her work with Vision 2030, and her recent appointment as CEO of the Art of Heritage Center. She’s also the founder of bespoke jewellery brand *Nuun*, and the founder of design and research consultancy Ahdlal for Design. 💡 This episode is brought to you by [EFG Holding](https://www.efghldg.com/?ref=at-media-group.com). For 40 years, EFG Holding has been realising more, for clients, investors, businesses, communities and individuals. See the world differently, and realize more with EFG Holding. You can also view the video version here: --- I’m also excited to tell you about the new benefits we’ve added to our members’ club. This season, you’ll get early access to our episodes—in fact, members can listen to the first THREE episodes of our season today! We’ll also be continuing our bonus episodes with guests, and checking in with some of your favourite *What I Did Next* alumni as well, so stay tuned. - [My conversation with Haitham Mattar](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/haitham-mattar/?ref=at-media-group.com), Managing Director of the Intercontinental Hotel Group for India, Middle East & Africa - [My conversation with Yasmine & Farida Khamis](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/yasmine-farida-khamis/?ref=at-media-group.com), the sisters now running the Oriental Weavers group ### Back to school URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/newsletter/back-to-school/ Last updated: 2024-08-27T08:00:24.000Z The end of summer and the start of September always has a ‘back to school’ feel about it for me. It’s a time for planning ahead, thinking about changes I want to make and new routines I want to put in place. It’s a time of renewal, possibility, and change. I’m looking forward to the 8th season of *What I Did Next*—from putting the final touches on our guest line-up, working on post-production and even starting to look ahead at what Season 9 will look like. I’m equally excited to be looking back as well, connecting with previous WIDN guests and seeing what they’ve been up to since our episode. We’ll be sharing these with you soon so stay tuned! On the home front, we’re gearing up for our son’s last two years of school. Perhaps the hardest and most intense time for any family. We’re also looking to add a new pet as our beloved dachshund, Twix, ages and slows down. In our last newsletter, I’d shared some of the books I’d been reading through over the summer. I’ve also finished binging a few shows: *The Crown* & *House of Cards* on Netflix, Apple TV+’s *Presumed Innocent* and the music biography *In Restless Dreams: The Music of Paul Simon*. ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2024/08/IMG_1371.jpeg) My summer podcast queue And finally, in the podcast world, I continue to be an avid listener of *The Rest is Politics* (which I suspect will only climb as we near November) as well as *Empire* and *The BoF Podcast*; while *Wiser than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus* has recently climbed to the top of my podcast queue. Any other podcasts I should add to this list? ### My summer reading list URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/newsletter/my-summer-reading-list/ Last updated: 2024-08-06T08:00:44.000Z Welcome to a special edition of our newsletter! With us on a season break—new episodes coming in September—I wanted to share what I’ve been up to this summer. I love the summer, with the promise of longer days and warmer nights, and not having any fixed plans. For me, it’s a time to catch-up with friends, organise days out together, BBQs, and generally do very little. This summer in particular, I’m feeling the need to take it easy. I’ve spent the last few months in non-stop meetings, planning one thing or another, and spending way to much time starting at screens and scrolling through content. It’s time to put that to one side and focus on the here and now. I’m forcing myself to rest and recharge. Being bored is good, it allows the imagination to wander. I know some of our best ideas come when we do next to nothing. Plus, [rest is incredibly essential to your general wellbeing](https://www.forbes.com/sites/womensmedia/2021/01/15/the-benefits-of-resting-and-how-to-unplug-in-a-busy-world/?ref=at-media-group.com). For me, swimming is where ideas come, so I’ve made it a daily activity, going from one side of the bay to the other. I’m hoping some of these ideas will translate into fun new ways to entertain you and the larger *What I Did Next* audience; from fun TikTok content to innovative ways to get interesting responses from my guests. Another thing I’m doing is reading for pleasure. I’ve been raiding my bookshelf to while away the hours, so here’s what I’m reading. Some are old favourites while others I’m reading for the first time. But they’re all great summer reads and give me great food for thought. ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2024/08/IMG_1318.jpeg) #### [Power of Geography](https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Future-of-Geography/Tim-Marshall/Politics-of-Place/9781668031643?ref=at-media-group.com) by Tim Marshall An amazing approach to better understanding why countries act the way they do. Our geographic location dictates so much of what we can and can’t do. Unputtdownable! ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2024/08/IMG_1319.jpeg) #### [We should all be Feminists](https://www.amazon.com/We-Should-All-Be-Feminists/dp/110191176X?ref=at-media-group.com) by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie I love the way Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie writes – rich, languid and textured. This is a fab gift and a super quick read – highly recommend! ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2024/08/IMG_1315.jpeg) #### [Hitch 22](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7332753-hitch-22?ref=at-media-group.com) by Christopher Hitchens Christopher Hitchens was a prolific writer and never feared poking and prodding the powerful with his polemics. Reading him is not easy but you come away having been challenged. ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2024/08/IMG_1317.jpeg) #### [Kiss Kiss](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44521.Kiss%5FKiss?ref=at-media-group.com) by Roald Dahl The great Roald Dahl has been hit by woke culture and many want him ‘cancelled’. I loved him growing up, losing myself in his eccentric and weird worlds. His writing transcends ages and can be read again and again. ### Gulf Business: The SME Story URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/blog/gulf-business-the-sme-story/ Last updated: 2024-08-09T11:18:54.000Z ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2024/08/IMG_1278.jpeg) Gulf Business spoke to Malak Fouad as part of their SME series about companies making a lasting impact on communities: > I’ve been very fortunate to speak to leaders across industries—from the worlds of art, culture, business, finance, sustainability, media, entertainment and more. These are people who are eager to share their stories, are articulate and attuned to the nuances of success and failure. The stories that resonate the most with my audiences are those where guests are able to be introspective with candour and with humour. [Read on Gulf Business](https://issuu.com/motivatepublishing/docs/gb%5Fmain%5Fjuly%5F2024%5Fissuu.com/64?ref=at-media-group.com) → ### Wrapping up Season 7 URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/wrapping-up-season-7/ Last updated: 2024-07-30T08:04:10.000Z Thank you for joining me for an incredible Season 7 of *What I Did Next*. This week, I’m joined this week by the show’s producer, Chirag Desai, to look back at some of the highlights & themes from this season’s fantastic guests. 💡 This episode is brought to you by: [EFG Holding](https://www.efghldg.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s7), a trailblazing financial institution with a Universal Bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). You’ll also hear from Mostafa Gad, Global Head of Investment Banking at EFG Hermes, an EFG Holding Company. EFG Holding has been an incredible partner for the show & I talk to Mostafa about his life's trajectory and his stellar career with the bank. Again, thank you for listening to the episodes, and for sending us your feedback and [comments](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/malak-el-baba/). We’ll be back with new episodes in September. Until then, you can catch up on our previous episodes, and follow us on Instagram, LinkedIn and on X for updates, and on [YouTube](https://youtube.com/@What-I-Did-Next/?ref=at-media-group.com) for extended video clips. ### Communicate: The Power of Audio in Driving Commerce URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/blog/communicate-the-power-of-audio-in-driving-commerce/ Last updated: 2024-06-24T07:17:04.000Z Communicate spoke to Malak Fouad on podcast commerce & how brands can better leverage audio advertising: > Audio is a very cost-effective way of reaching your audience, you can start small with a few episodes across multiple shows, and go big with collaborations and season or annual buys. It’s important to focus on podcasts that fit your brand ethos, have the right target audience, and look to tie-in with key marketing initiatives you’re already doing as a brand to create multiple touch-points. #### Read the full Q&A ↓ ****What initially drew you to the world of podcasting and audio communication as a professional?** Podcasting was a ‘sum of all parts’ for me in that it allowed me to harness all the experience I had gathered over decades in the communications industry, and share our region’s stories with a captive audience. Having worked as a journalist in New, London and Cairo and in media consultancy and PR in London and Cairo, I felt I could bring the 360 vision and know-how to creating an audio content company. I had just finished a Masters and felt the time was right to jump into this new and exciting medium. ****As a communications professional, how do you perceive the unique advantages of audio advertising compared to other mediums, especially in the context of driving commerce?** The direct contact with the audience is unique and the fact that the listening happens on-demand means that the audience is already predisposed to hearing curated advertising content. Audio is also great in that you can consume while continuing with your day, whether while commuting, working out or running errands for example. The key is making sure the advertiser is a ‘match’ with our target audience, and the brand of the show as well. ****Can you share a specific example where audio advertising significantly impacted a brand's success in driving purchases or converting consumers into long-term customers?** One of the premiere examples of this is Squarespace, who have run podcast ads since 2009, and found a third of new subscriptions came from the campaign. By 2015, they had spent 2.5x more than the second-highest advertiser, creating a fan following of long-term customers and evangelists for the platform. We’re seeing a similar scale-up in the region as well. EFG Holding for example, have expanded their partnership with What I Did Next since starting on Season 2\. We’ve also seen other global brands enter the podcasting world in the region, such as Mastercard’s partnership with **Forward Talks*, and the Tim Hortons collaboration with **The Mo Show*. ****In your experience, what are some common misconceptions brands have about the effectiveness of audio advertising in driving commerce?** Like with any industry in its nascent stage, podcasting in MENA is still evolving. One of the main issues is education marketing and communication departments about the benefits of audio for their brand. One of the many misconceptions is the size of the podcast and audio markets, and the fact that audio is one of the most effective ways in terms of brand uplift, brand retention, and brand action. ****What role does storytelling play in creating effective audio ads for brands? Can you provide an example of a compelling audio ad campaign that utilized storytelling to drive commerce success?** Creating compelling ads through storytelling is as important in podcasting as it is for all mediums. Last season for example, we did a special sponsored episode with our long-time partner EFG Holding through interviews with 2 C-suite executives. This allowed us to create awareness for the brand, and their values in a way that is inkeeping with the format of our show and making it easy for the audience to immerse themselves. This also helps us create a smooth transition within our regular episodes, where the experience of listening to an ad or a sponsor message is not jarring as it is in other mediums. ****With the rise of podcasts and streaming platforms, how do you see the landscape of audio advertising evolving in the next 5 years, particularly in the Middle East region?** We’re still in a nascent phase of the industry in the Middle East, so we will still see a lot more content across more categories which will also help expand the advertising landscape. Technology partnerships with podcasts and ad platforms as well as other integrations means more brands are being onboarded into the podcast ad world as we speak. We expect the region will rival the US market cap and be a major global player for podcast content and advertising over the next 5 years. ****Metrics are crucial for advertisers to gauge the success of their campaigns. What key metrics should brands focus on when evaluating the effectiveness of their audio advertising efforts?** The on-demand nature of podcasts means that the number of ad impressions is an effective metric of knowing your audience has heard your message. Modern podcast and ad platforms also provide you with unique listener estimates against your impressions, regional and demographic data. Brands with physical products can also use specific campaign codes to track effectiveness. At A&T Media, we also couple this with social media as well as our newsletter metrics to provide a well-rounded overview of our partner ad campaigns. ****How can smaller brands or retailers with limited resources effectively leverage audio advertising to compete with larger players in the market?** Audio is a very cost-effective way of reaching your audience, you can start small with a few episodes across multiple shows, and go big with collaborations and season or annual buys. The on-demand nature of podcasts means that your audience is already open to your message, and you can work closely with creators to tailor your message to their audience. It’s important to focus on podcasts that fit your brand ethos, have the right target audience, and look to tie-in with key marketing initiatives you’re already doing as a brand to create multiple touch-points. ****Personalization is a growing trend in marketing. How can brands effectively personalize their audio ads to resonate with diverse audiences and drive commerce success?** With a lower production cost compared to other mediums, the ability to target separate territories and countries, or separate devices with customised messages means there’s a lot you can do to personalise your audio ads. We work very closely with our brand partners so that their messages are crafted into bespoke campaigns that can change during our season runs, and recommend coupling this with social media platform targeting with your podcast partner to help drive success. ****When it comes to consumer behavior, what insights have you gathered about how audio advertisements influence purchasing decisions, especially in a region like the Middle East?** We see the Middle East as a region with a dedicated audience who are eager for new content, especially one that showcases the region, its heritage and culture, and its stories. This is also great for brands who want to tap into the region’s audience and showcase their product or service through creative collaborations and storytelling. Today, we’ve developed a loyal audience that is excited to hear from our brand partners as well. For example, during our last season campaign with EFG Holding, our sponsor-dedicated newsletter saw an open-rate that was at par with our regular episodes. ****In your opinion, what are some of the challenges brands face when trying to integrate audio advertising into their overall marketing strategy, and how can they overcome these challenges?** As I’ve mentioned, awareness is definitely a challenge we see today, a one-size-fits-all approach does not always work for audio, or even video shows. Being a newer medium in terms of going mainstream, brands also tend to think only in terms of social media metrics vs utilizing the full gamut of what podcasts can do–from episode and show-level campaigns to sponsor collaborations, product placement and more. Podcasts being decentralized as a medium has great advantages, but it also has an impact on integrating technology with ad platforms that have been traditionally used by ad buyers, although there has been some program here in recent years. ****Lastly, what advice would you give to brands and retailers looking to embark on an audio advertising strategy to drive commerce success, based on your expertise and experience in this field?** Podcasts are extremely flexible in terms of the types of campaigns we can run with brands, from pure ad-buys to long-term sponsor collaborations, as well as product placements and integrations. Brands often look at podcasts as a separate campaign from their existing marketing and communications initiatives, and integrating these creates a coherent marketing strategy with multiple touch-points that are very effective in driving your message. Our advice to brands would be to test the waters, start small and scale up, which is incredibly easy to do with podcasts. ### Bonus: Ghada Amer on her artistic process URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-ghada-amer/ Last updated: 2024-06-18T09:00:56.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with multidisciplinary artist Ghada Amer. On this bonus episode, Ghada tells me about her artistic process, and what’s in her creative inbox. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Ghada Amer URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/ghada-amer/ Last updated: 2024-07-30T07:27:39.000Z For the last episode of Season 7, I’m joined by internationally acclaimed artist Ghada Amer, who tells me about the creative fuel behind her work: > *Anger is a very big motivation for me. I made the decision not to use painting because this was a man’s world. So I need to to paint with, to use something that a woman would use and to, to make painting with it. So I picked embroidery.* As a multidisciplinary artist, Ghada is as comfortable working with a needle and thread as she is with a paintbrush, or forging steel for sculptures or working on one-of-a-kind garden installations. She began exhibiting her work in the 90s, and her art continues to focus on women equality and female sexuality. Ghada’s work has been shown at the world's finest fairs and exhibition spaces, including, the Whitney Biennial and PS1 Contemporary Art Center in New York, at the Venice Biennale where she won the UNESCO Prize, at the Johannesburg Biennial, and the Istanbul Biennale among many others. I found myself relating to Ghada on many levels. We are both children of Egyptian parents, were raised in Europe, and can see our countries of origin and our adopted countries with the bird's eye view of outsiders. We have both been admirers of Western values but are today horrified by the hypocrisy of Western governments towards injustice in the Middle East. ### Bonus: Mohamed Al Fayed on his early years and the launch of Ounass URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-mohamed-al-fayed/ Last updated: 2024-06-04T08:00:27.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with entrepreneur Mohamed Al Fayed, founder of *Grubtech*. On this bonus episode, we’ll talk a bit about his early years, and the launch of Ounass, the region’s premiere luxury marketplace. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Mohamed Al Fayed URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/my-conversation-with-entrepreneur-mohamed-al-fayed/ Last updated: 2024-08-08T06:39:02.000Z I’m joined on this episode by entrepreneur Mohamed Al Fayed, who tells me what failing early in his life taught him: > *I’m one of these guys that always learned the hard way. I learned from the beatings and the more I got, the stronger I became. And it didn't happen in the the first 10 failures I've experienced, it happened on the 100th. I became more resilient, and with resilience came a risk appetite. So my fear of the unknown or my fear of risk or failure started to dissipate over time. And my actions became a little bolder with time. And I'm standing here today on the back of all of that.* 💡 This episode is brought to you by: [EFG Holding](https://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s6), a trailblazing financial institution with a Universal Bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). Even if you may not have heard of him directly, you’ll have come across some of Mohamed’s work. Beginning his career with Macy’s, one of the largest retailers in the U.S., he led the launch of *Mamas & Papas* and *Gap* in the GCC, as well as the region’s largest luxury online marketplace, *Ounass*. He also served as Senior Vice President of Omnichannel at Al Tayer Group, where he worked for 12 years before launching his startup, *Grubtech*. As a host, you never really know when an interview will be *great*, but that’s what Mohamed’s episode is. He has a great professional story that he shares eloquently, and a very moving personal story that shapes his outlook today. He acknowledges how much he has changed from the young guy starting out 30-years-ago in the US. I was deeply moved by Moe's story and it reminds me that we are all made up of so many parts and layers. We are never one thing at any one time, we are always changing and learning. ### Bonus: Becky Anderson on her role as Managing Editor at CNN URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-becky-anderson-cnn/ Last updated: 2024-05-21T08:00:10.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with CNN’s Becky Anderson. On this bonus episode, we talk about her role as Managing Editor and how our region fits into the larger CNN programming agenda worldwide. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### EntrepreneurME: Tuning Into Success URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/blog/entrepreneur-me-tuning-into-podcasting-success/ Last updated: 2024-08-09T11:27:50.000Z Malak Fouad shares her entrepreneurship lessons from the frontlines of the podcasting scene in the Middle East: > Monetizing content in a market still warming up to the digital revolution presents its challenges. My own journey, carving a niche in this evolving landscape, sheds light on some of these issues. I have found that breaking through with audiences has been significantly easier than convincing brands that podcasting is a viable marketing tool. With budgets traditionally allocated to conventional media, marketing departments are still unclear about what their money will buy them and some brands have yet to understand the potential of audio. What I Did Next has been sponsored and supported by avant-garde brands such as EFG Holding, who have seen the potential of connecting directly with an audience that reflects their values. [Read the full article](https://issuu.com/entmagazineme/docs/entrepreneur%5Fmiddle%5Feast%5Fmay%5F2024/46?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com&utm%5Fmedium=web) → ### Becky Anderson URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/becky-anderson/ Last updated: 2024-08-08T06:56:15.000Z I’m joined on this episode by Becky Anderson, Managing Editor at CNN Abu Dhabi, and one of the channel’s most visible international anchors. She tells me about her mission to change the perception of our region: > *I hope that people around the world understood better the people from this region, the culture of this region, the dynamism of this region and the spirit. I want people to understand, this place as well as I am learning to understand this place. The good, bad and indifferent from this region. And I have made a real point of ensuring that we provide \[a\] proper platform for women's and young girls' voices on whatever story that we do.* I was excited to indulge in my love for all-things-news with Becky on this episode. We talked about the industry as a whole, her pivot to broadcasting, and how she sees her role in an evolving yet difficult world where everything seems to be happening at once—climate change, elections, more divides and tensions between countries. 💡 This episode is brought to you by: [EFG Holding](https://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s6), a trailblazing financial institution with a Universal Bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). ### Bonus: Dr. Mounir Neamatalla on building EQI’s micro-finance and sustainability programs URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-mounir-neamatalla/ Last updated: 2024-05-07T08:00:43.000Z We’re continuing my conversation from last week with pioneering environmentalist Dr. Mounir Neamatalla. On our bonus episode, Dr. Mounir tells me about EQI’s micro-finance program and how the ground-breaking eco-lodge and restoration work in Siwa led to their involvement in a sustainable development project in AlUla, Saudi Arabia. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Dr. Mounir Neamatalla URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/dr-mounir-neamatalla/ Last updated: 2024-07-30T07:28:37.000Z On today’s episode, pioneering environmentalist Dr. Mounir Neamatalla tells me about his groundbreaking work that aims to strike a balance between development, social responsibility and the environment: > *I believed that if you establish solid relationships with your natural and physical environment, solid relationships with communities, and if you establish solid relationships with your past, present, and future, you appreciate your heritage, that together these are formulas for creating magical results. You can literally combat a lot of the social problems and create a lot of opportunities for entire communities.* 💡 This episode is brought to you by: [EFG Holding](https://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s6), a trailblazing financial institution with a Universal Bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). Dr. Mounir Neamatalla is the founder of Environment Quality International, EQI, which he founded in 1981\. EQI started out as the first environment-focused advisory in Egypt and went on to become a pioneer in the world of micro-finance. Then in 1996, Dr. Mounir’s visit to the remote oasis of Siwa led to the launch of the pathbreaking Siwa Sustainable Development Initiative. My conversation with Dr. Mounir was special for a number of reasons—he is a family friend, I’ve long-admired his philosophy on life and how he sees the world, and he has all the characteristics of what is fast becoming a bygone era. He is a romantic, a dreamer, a deep thinker, choosing the slower measured approach over today's fast and frenetic pace. He has been on my podcast wish list since the show's inception but he kept resisting my requests to come on and share his story...until now. ### Bonus: Malak El Baba on the transformation led by digital payments URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-malak-el-baba/ Last updated: 2024-04-23T09:00:37.000Z We’re continuing my conversation from last week with Malak El Baba, Country manager for VISA in Egypt. On this bonus episode, Malak tells me more about the digital payments industry, and Visa’s own evolution since it was established by Dee Hock in 1958. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Malak El Baba URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/malak-el-baba/ Last updated: 2024-08-08T12:22:26.000Z I’m joined this week by Malak El Baba, Egypt Country Manager for Visa, and a leader and role model for so many in her industry. We had a wonderful conversation that spanned different countries and phases of her life. Although she has spent nearly two decades in banking and finance, she actually started out wanting to become a diplomat. But destiny had other plans, shaping not just her career but who she married and where she lives today. 💡 This episode is brought to you by: [EFG Holding](https://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s6), a trailblazing financial institution with a Universal Bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). Like a true marketer, Malak is very much a people-person, a team builder, and a team player. She’s also an optimist. She truly embodies the traits I find is most successful people. Malak also leads Visa’s Women Leadership Network for MENA, and is the winner of several market leadership awards including four MENA Effies’ awards and 2 Media Efficiency awards. ### Bonus: Hatem Alakeel on supporting the creative community in Saudi Arabia URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-hatem-alakeel-on-supporting-the-creative-community/ Last updated: 2024-04-09T08:30:20.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with award-winning design & entrepreneur Hatem Alakeel. On this bonus episode, Hatem tells me how he began supporting the creative community in Saudi Arabia, and his cultural life. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Hatem Alakeel URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/hatem-alakeel/ Last updated: 2024-08-08T06:40:18.000Z I’m delighted to be joined by Hatem Alakeel, an award-winning Saudi designer, fashion entrepreneur and podcast host. He has designed for global icons including Mattel’s Barbie, Evian, Lexus, Fairmont, Raffles, and the Ritz Carlton among others, and he was among the first regional artists to create and celebrate Saudi traditions. > *How are we even going to have our own identity if our heritage and our culture is not ingrained in what we create? For people to give us attention, for people to start respecting us, they have to realize that we have our own stories and our own stories they have to be reflected in our work. And that's always been my ethos.* 💡 This episode is brought to you by: [EFG Holding](https://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s6), a trailblazing financial institution with a Universal Bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). Hatem and I are the same age and grew up with similar points of reference. Being able to explain ‘the other’ and be at ease in different cultures is something we both have in common. As a defacto ambassador for brand Saudi Arabia, he brings the perfect blend of east-meets-west to the table. With his first company, *Toby Hatem Alakeel*, Hatem brought the traditional thobe into the luxury fashion world, with displays at Harvey Nichols, Saks Fifth Avenue, and Boutique 1\. Today, he runs *Authenticite*, a consulting and creative production agency connecting creators and brands who want to understand Saudi culture. He also continues developing content with his editorial pieces showcasing Saudi artists on his website, and through his podcast, *Gems of Arabia*. #### Transcript Malak Fouad \[00:05 - 00:25\] Welcome again to What I Did Next from A&T Media. I'm Malak Fouad. I welcome a new guest from the region on each episode and we take a deep dive into their lives' most pivotal moments. On today's episode, fashion and branding entrepreneur Hatem Alakeel tells me why his mission to showcase the best of his native Saudi Arabia is so important to him. Hatem Alakeel \[00:25 - 00:57\] How are we even going to have our own identity if our heritage and our culture is not ingrained in what we create? For people to give us attention, for people to start respecting us, they have to realize that we have our own stories and our own stories have to be reflected in our work. Western culture has really kind of inspired me over the years. I've learned a lot and I'm grateful to Western culture. But now it's time to also focus on our own culture and our identity. And I believe that this is also what Saudi Arabia is doing, tapping into what is their identity and taking it further. Malak Fouad \[00:59 - 01:37\] Hatem Alakeel is an award-winning designer, entrepreneur, and podcast host. He has designed for global icons including Mattel's Barbie, Evian, Lexus, Fairmont, Raffles, and the Ritz-Carlton, among others. And he was among the first regional artists to create and celebrate Saudi traditions. His first company, Toby Hatem Alakeel, brought the traditional thobe into the luxury fashion world with displays at Harvey Nichols, Saks Fifth Avenue, and Boutique One. Today, Hatem runs Authenticité, a consulting and creative production agency, connecting creators and brands who want to better understand Saudi culture. He also continues developing content with his editorial pieces, \[01:38 - 02:14\] showcasing Saudi artists on his website and through his podcast, Gems of Arabia. Hatem and I are the same age and grew up with similar points of reference. He's an incredibly easy person to interview and talk to. As a de facto ambassador for brand Saudi Arabia, he brings humor and the perfect blend of East meets West to the table. Being able to explain the other and be at ease with the other is a great way to connect with the other. The fact that he's in different cultures is something he and I have in common and perhaps take for granted. However, it's a major asset and he wears it lightly and elegantly. Hatim grew up in Saudi Arabia and in the U.S. and went to boarding school in Switzerland before attending Boston University. Hatem Alakeel \[02:15 - 02:41\] Many elements towards how much I benefited from being in boarding school in Switzerland. One of them was the fact that I was exposed to so many cultures with people from all over the world, whether it's Australia, whether it's Mombasa, whether it's Europe, whether it's the States. So being exposed to such a wide range of cultures, I was able to learn a lot about the world. A very diverse community from a very young age made me much more open-minded and much more exposed to different mentalities, different cultures. I'm very grateful for that, actually. Malak \[02:41 - 02:59\] And I think when you were in Boston there at the time, there was a huge Arab community there, even now, actually. Did you find yourself becoming friends more with the Arabs or did you try and meet other people or how did it go for you? I mean, for me, it was always about diversity. Other speaker \[03:00 - 03:03\] Yes, there were Saudis. Yes, there were Egyptians. Yes, there were Lebanese. Hatem Alakeel \[03:03 - 03:27\] But there were also, you know, Italians. There were Kuwaitis. There were French. So I always kind of like to have that kind of exposure. I've been bridging cultures, I think, since day one. I was always kind of like, felt like an ambassador to Saudi. I always wanted to kind of represent Saudi in a certain way ever since I was a kid. Malak \[03:28 - 03:45\] That's interesting. That's interesting. I'm very similar because I lived in many different countries. And I find that you're always explaining one part of yourself or one part of your culture to whoever you're sitting with. And it can be fun, but it can also be a little bit isolating, maybe. I don't know. Hatem Alakeel \[03:46 - 04:16\] It can be a bit frustrating where people are undermining you. Oh, my God, really? You're from there? But, okay, why? There's so many diverse cultured people from all over the world. I don't know why. Yeah. There's a specific stereotype that has to exist when you are from a certain region. And I always felt like it was kind of my role to change perception through my fashion, through my work, through everything that I ended up doing. It became almost like a mission for me to show what we're about as Arabs. \[04:16 - 04:35\] I think we all have a responsibility to do that, especially when our parents made the effort and the investment and the ethos of making sure. I think we all have a responsibility to do that, especially when our parents made the effort and the ethos of making sure. That we have that kind of bridging perspective. It's our duty to represent, I think. Malak \[04:35 - 05:05\] I think also that there is now a receptiveness in Western countries to hear the story. You know, they realize that there's diversity, there is sophistication, and we're not all lumped into one bucket. What's happening in Morocco is different to what's happening in the UAE, is different to Oman, is different. To Syria, we were all just one before, and clearly that's now changing, and that can only be a good thing. Hatem Alakeel \[05:06 - 05:13\] It was all either, you know, basically Alibaba and 1,000 Nights, or that's pretty much how they see us, you know. Malak \[05:13 - 05:15\] Yeah, or terrorists. Hatem Alakeel \[05:15 - 05:42\] Or terrorists, yeah. Unfortunately, you know, there's a lot of lack of knowledge on Arabia, lack of knowledge on our part of the world. And now people have no choice because they have been so affected by the lack of humanity. They want to learn more about. They want to learn more about what's happening. I think it just reiterates the fact that we are all one in the end, you know. Yeah. We're all humans, and the fact that certain people don't understand what is happening is baffling to me, baffling, you know. Yeah. \[05:42 - 05:56\] And I think it's high time that more light is shed on us as an Arab community, and our capabilities, our passions, and what we are going through as well. Malak \[05:56 - 06:11\] So, you did something very exciting. student, you became a model. So you went to New York while you were studying in Boston, and you signed up with an agency, and you did modeling on the side. Hatem Alakeel \[06:11 - 06:51\] Yeah, well, it wasn't something that I kind of, you know, pursued, but it kind of came, fell into my plate. And I thought, you know, why not? It was giving me the opportunity to go and visit New York. I love New York. New York was such a diverse, cosmopolitan place, very different than anywhere else in the US. You know, Anna Wintour used to say, you want to see what is next year's fashion, go to the meatpacking district, and you will see what the trends are. And I love the sense of individuality that people have, even besides fashion, just culturally, they were much more in tune with what's happening in the world. But everyone had their own take, everyone had their own perspective. It's very much the melting pot, because every nationality is there. Absolutely. Very cosmopolitan, very diverse. And I was lucky \[06:51 - 07:31\] enough to, you know, walk for Armani, Jill Sander, and various designers. And from there, I really became bitten by the fashion bug. And I'm like, wait a minute. Wow. Why am I not studying fashion? What am I doing? This is a world that I really love. And I tried to find the formula all throughout my early career before I became a designer, to find the formula of how can I work in fashion? And why didn't I study it? But then I realized that, you know, wait a minute, you don't really have to study everything that you're passionate about. But it was actually a turning point for me that made me realize that you can multitask. And you can pursue different things while you're still focusing on one thing. So graduated, \[07:31 - 07:35\] wanted to stay a little bit longer and do more modeling, but the family was like, absolutely not. Malak \[07:37 - 07:46\] There's only so much they'll accept, right? Yeah, exactly. And it was a blessing in disguise that put me in a position where I had to go back Other speaker \[07:46 - 07:52\] and make something of myself. So I worked in marketing, I worked in advertising, I worked in Hatem Alakeel \[07:52 - 08:26\] banking. But when I worked in banking, I realized, okay, this is not for me. I was never really part of the corporate environment. I could never really fit into the corporate world. It was not my, I didn't feel it was my calling. And it didn't match my ethos of wanting to create, wanting to become an individual. So I went to London and went to Savile Row and then a light bulb came out. While I was going to London, I realized that, wait a minute, why don't we bring a bit of Savile Row into tradition? So I saw that the taupe market was still kind of limited when it comes to execution, when it comes to... \[08:26 - 09:06\] Quality. So I went back to Saudi. At that time, I was at the bank. At the bank, you had to wear a suit every day or you wear a taupe. And I had to wear a taupe every day. And I'm like, I'm not about to wear the same thing every day. Like I refuse. So I found some great tailors. And my parents, my mother was nice enough to let me use the house where I could get a tailor and have some machines to come in and actually make some proper bespoke taubes. So through Google, through tutorials, through trial and error, we crafted and created really immaculately made taubes. So are you self-taught? \[09:06 - 09:07\] I'm self-taught, yes. Malak \[09:07 - 09:17\] And did you actually sew yourself? I mean, did you say, I want this cut like this? I want to do it like this? I mean, did you get really involved in how you wanted your taubes to look? Hatem Alakeel \[09:18 - 09:54\] I never studied patternmaking. I never studied stitching, but I found some great tailors and I understood what quality was. So... We always love fashion. You know, this is something that my mom, Allah al-Rahman, always gave us, you know, understanding quality, understanding fashion. So I had some really beautiful shirts that were made immaculately. And I said, why can't we translate this? Brought those as examples, as prototypes. And from there, we started to create the execution. Proud to say that we brought some quality into the taupe making, you know, well-finished colors, detailing. Obviously, I took it to the next level where I made them very avant-garde. Malak \[09:54 - 10:02\] They do look different. They don't look, obviously, not at all like the traditional. Thank you. And there's an edge to them. They're really funky. Hatem Alakeel \[10:02 - 10:09\] Thanks a lot. Ever since, even since boarding school days, I always wanted to show that our culture and our heritage can hold its own with international. Malak \[10:10 - 10:37\] I want to know how your family reacted when you left the banking world and the more corporate, traditional, conventional world behind. And you said, you know, fashion is where my heart is. This is what I want to do. And obviously you were a pioneer, not just maybe for your family, not in your family only, but obviously within your larger peer group, I'm sure. How was that? Hatem Alakeel \[10:38 - 11:16\] Honestly, I'm very lucky because my mother-in-law and my brother were always very supportive in all the decisions that I make. You know, I always went by the beat of my own drum and I was always very stubborn. So there wasn't any kind of... They had no choice. They didn't really have any choice, no. But I mean, they saw that I had a vision and they saw that my approach was very different and they saw that there was a niche for it in the market. So it made sense. You know, there was an actual business plan. Not the business plan that maybe I should have really focused on, but there was a vision. \[11:17 - 11:55\] And from there, they just kind of realized that, you know, I'm onto something and this is my calling and I've always wanted to work in fashion. I always couldn't find the right formula. And then when this light bulb went up in London, I realized, you know what, this is what I need to start doing. You know, what I'm doing is also changing the narrative on how cliche and how primitive people look at our culture. As we had spoken earlier on, I feel like it's our calling as Arabs who are westernized or who have been exposed to the West to showcase the beauty and the brilliance of our culture and how rich and how multifaceted it is. Absolutely. It can be, you know. Malak Fouad \[11:58 - 12:21\] When we come back, we'll look at how Toby became an inflection point for Hatem's career and the launch of Authenticite. That's right after this short break. Welcome back. You're listening to what I did next with my guest, Hatem Alakeel. In 2007, Hatem opened his first boutique for thobes. Hatem Alakeel \[12:21 - 12:50\] I participated in Dubai Fashion Week and Sheikh Majed Al-Sabah attended my show. And at that time, he had Villa Moda, Dubai, Kuwait and Bahrain. And from the first show, I was very lucky to have a Saudi brand, traditional brand, alongside Marni, Prada, Dolce & Gabbana. Like, this is the kind of narrative that I wanted to create through my fashion to show them. And of that caliber, you were in that caliber, which is what you wanted. Malak \[12:50 - 12:51\] Exactly. Other speaker \[12:51 - 12:57\] So and from there, the rest is history. I opened two other boutiques in Jeddah. I opened one in Riyadh. Hatem Alakeel \[12:58 - 13:36\] I was very lucky to have been able to dress international celebrities. Exactly. Such as, you know, Snoop Dogg to Christian Louboutin, and we also dressed, we were commissioned to do the polo match for Prince William as well. So kind of really took off. I was very lucky to be able to express myself in that way. However, at that time, we always had to go to Dubai to get ourselves recognized. The ecosystem, fashion ecosystem wasn't there. We really kind of, you know, had to jump through hoops and we were pretty much on our own, you know. So I was lucky to have had the support of the family. To be able to pursue my dream and continue doing my fashion shows and doing my collections. Malak \[13:36 - 13:57\] So you carried on until about 2020 and then COVID hit and that changed the dynamics both on the ground and also in you. Yes. What you wanted to pursue after Toby. So did you officially close it down? Yes. That was that must have been quite sad, though, for you. It was very difficult. Hatem Alakeel \[13:57 - 14:36\] But what we have to realize is that... Yes. Since we don't have the infrastructure as a designer, when you become a designer like me, who's very emphatic, very, you know, much of a perfectionist, the end result has to be perfect. And the only way we can guarantee quality is if you have your own manufacturing, you have your own workshop, you have your own sales team, you have... So designer friends of mine who are in New York, who are in Paris, they create the collection, they go to a workshop, they make a contract and they create their own prototype. And from there, they're free. You know? They don't have to worry about it. We weren't able to do that in those days. Now things are improving. \[14:36 - 14:38\] Eventually, inshallah, it will get to that stage. Malak \[14:39 - 14:45\] And when you were working, what was the situation, Hatem? How did you create your line? I had to do everything. Other speaker \[14:45 - 14:47\] I had to find my own tailors. I had to create my own patterns. Hatem Alakeel \[14:47 - 15:27\] I had to source my own fabrics. And it was quite a process. And at the same time, when the end result was ready, for example, if PT Umo wants to buy a few pieces, I wasn't able to supply because they want 300 pieces. How am I going to come up with the 300 pieces with the same quality? I'm not going to go to any random workshop and do them. So for me, if I go back into fashion, if I can guarantee that I can get the quality of the production for 50 pieces or 300 pieces, I will go back to it. But that was always a process and an ongoing battle for me. And I felt like, you know what, I'll wait this one out. Why don't I help other people for change and see? \[15:27 - 15:51\] And at the same time, it's actually very rewarding. I'm able now to create. I'm able now to create opportunities for communities. I've been doing my own content for the past 20 years where I would do my photo shoots. I would do. And I realized I really had a passion for that. So why not do that by empowering and bridging local creatives and shedding light on them with international brands? This is how authenticity came about, you know? Malak \[15:51 - 16:28\] And I also think it's interesting. I mean, you know, zaman, our parents, grandparents had one career for life. Or they worked at one company for life. And that's not the reality anymore. We don't do that anymore. You know, now people jump from thing to thing or they outgrow things or for whatever reason, they take a different direction. But yours is obviously complementary to what you had been doing. It's something, as you said, you'd always been doing. It had always been there in the background, kind of percolating. And then you threw yourself into it. So tell me about authenticity. Hatem Alakeel \[16:29 - 16:29\] Authenticite. Malak \[16:30 - 16:38\] Authenticite. Yeah. And in Arabic, it's asala. Asala. Okay. Okay. Authenticite. Okay. So it's French. It's a French pronunciation. Hatem Alakeel \[16:38 - 16:43\] I mean, because of my French education, I always kind of incorporate a bit of, you know, that. Malak \[16:43 - 16:44\] Of course. Of course. Hatem Alakeel \[16:44 - 17:23\] But the whole point is because I feel like a lot of creatives have been overlooked because they don't have the capital. They don't have the PR, whereas so we don't get to shine the light on them, you know, because they don't have a voice. So for me, I realized. And also, it kind of kills the credibility of the market where you only get to see certain people versus there are so many incredible people that we don't know about, you know. So my mission was always to kind of shed light on the hidden and the shimmering gems of Saudi Arabia. And I think that there's an incredible community of creatives who all they need is one push. Malak \[17:23 - 17:29\] And what do you, what is this? Is this an agency or is it, what is it exactly? Hatem Alakeel \[17:29 - 18:04\] So it's a marketing and branding. Yeah. It's a marketing agency and we also do content. We do activations. The ethos is to ensure that we are authentic in every, in the messaging and the selection and the curation of talent that we curate. We always make sure that we curate people who have, you know, a great storytelling, a great voice, a great way of looking at things differently and showing the new Saudi Arabia, showing where Saudi Arabia really is heading. And I'm also part of the fashion society in Saudi Arabia. And of course I have, you know, our platform on social media. \[18:05 - 18:39\] We'll get to the podcast as well, which is complimentary, but I feel very proud of the fact that a lot of international brands now are starting to really take our markets much more seriously. So a lot of them have been very supportive, whether it's Harrods, whether it's Valentino, whether it's Boucheron, brands that want to enter the market in a different way. And it's no longer one size fits all. We're brands. Brands just hire one agency. I think they want a new voice. They want a new perspective. They want to see things from a different box. And this is where we come in. Malak \[18:40 - 19:13\] I had interviewed Imran Amed from the business of fashion. And at the time, this was last May. And he had just come out with a report about the retail environment in the Middle East and how all the big designers used to just focus on Ramadan. And produce caftans and then think that they had provided what the region needed and call it a day and then go back home. And, you know, that the report that he came back with was showing a very sophisticated market. \[19:13 - 19:52\] But also, interestingly, which I'm sure you have also seen, is a turning away from everything Western and an assumption that everything that comes from the West is best. And an acceptance and a pride in local. And melding maybe a bit of this, a bit of that. But traditional fashion, traditional ornaments, jewelry, whatever you want to design, traditional design, is having a resurgence now with a younger generation, right? Are you seeing that? \[19:52 - 19:55\] How are we even going to have our own identity? Other speaker \[19:55 - 20:03\] If our heritage and our culture is not ingrained in what we create? We might as well just, you know, follow what everyone else is doing. Hatem Alakeel \[20:03 - 20:36\] The whole point of creating your own essence, creating your own culture, creating your own narrative and showcasing what we are about. For us, for people to give us attention, for people to start respecting us, they have to realize that we have our own stories. And our own stories have to be reflected in our work. That's the rule. And that's always been kind of my ethos, you know? People look at our culture going towards tradition as primitive. Actually, I don't agree. I think it's very progressive. And I think it gives us a stronger sense of identity. \[20:37 - 21:17\] Now, a lot of us are celebrating our identity and it's giving us even more strength and more credibility. Because there is this identity that now we have realized, which is heritage, which is culture. And the way we execute it, the way we showcase it, it's up to us. But there are so many incredibly well-executed concepts, whether it's fashion, whether it's, for example, a brand like Abadia, which you must follow. Shahada al-Sahail. Incredible approach towards tradition. Very progressive, sustainable fabrics. Really beautiful, beautifully executed. It could be in Milan. It could be anywhere. \[21:17 - 21:52\] And it doesn't stop there. It's an interior design. It's poetry. It's fashion. It's writing. It's content. So many elements that people have to see in our culture. So we work with a lot of also international brands that want to have a different strategy. So it's across the board. We offer a 360 solution in coming into the market, thinking of how to approach the market marketing-wise. I think PR-wise also. We work with major PR companies to make sure that they have the right voice for the market. \[21:53 - 21:58\] i've been doing this for a long time you know like over 20 years so remember i started when i was Malak \[21:58 - 22:31\] five you know so it makes me 25\. no and not only that you're in a unique position because as you said you're a bridge you're a bridge because you obviously know your own culture very well but you also know the west very well uh having been educated in europe and in the us so you know exactly how they what is required by them the level of professionalism that they expect and you're a translator left and right you're able to explain one side to the other and i think um Hatem Alakeel \[22:31 - 23:04\] that's what it enables you to do this work thank you and it's uh it honestly is an area that i've always wanted to involve myself in because changing perception and uh elevating uh the narrative the cliche and the narratives that we have i'm able to translate that in my work i'm able to not just fashion now i can do that through my work with my clients with my content so it's it's amazing to see how much more responsive the uh the western brands are and how much more uh eager and trusting \[23:04 - 23:14\] they are now versus before like two two three years ago sky's the limit really tell me a little Malak \[23:14 - 23:26\] bit about the podcast it's called Gems of Arabia we're trying to to follow your your great footsteps and i think we're all following each other we're all together you're very kind thank you Hatem Alakeel \[23:26 - 23:50\] really love what you're doing as well and the substance that you are providing thank you thank you so much gems of arabia actually started about six years ago it was a column that i was writing even though i was a you know designing i always wanted to continue what i'm doing through fashion but through writing so really highlight people who inspire me and showing how incredible people are we we know we did the Christian Laboutin going to Saudi Arabia madan Saleh Malak \[23:50 - 23:56\] and where were the columns uh hatem where were you uh uh publishing these when i first started it Hatem Alakeel \[23:56 - 24:25\] was at uh with Bureau uh which is a uh local portal but then i continued and now uh they are on my website i see i see so for me my mission was always to showcase uh how rich our culture is you know uh i i was blessed enough to have the first interview with support with Princess Reema Bandar uh from ISA which is a high school that i went to in the u.s Islamic Saudi Academy and she's the Malak \[24:25 - 24:31\] Saudi ambassador to Washington yes yeah so i remember the the first article that we wrote Hatem Alakeel \[24:31 - 24:50\] that was when before she started and she was uh the messaging that she had in the article was that she hopes to one day see the Saudi women not just uh you know a dreamer but a success story and it's amazing how she has manifested it and look at where it has come and how full circle it has become and mashallah where she is now you know like the mx Malak \[24:50 - 25:03\] it's incredible exemplary lady for for for all generations she's a wonderful role model and an an example for all women not just arab women absolutely and for me and and when i started Hatem Alakeel \[25:03 - 25:37\] i always wanted i was there's so many people that i was inspired by and i wanted to write about them so and it goes on you know we have mashallah who's the first saudi aerospace engineer uh to uh you know hussein al-rida uh when he first started you know the first saudi uh olympic rower i mean and it goes on and it goes on and then from there from there it just resonated and uh came coveted uh and then i said you know what i want to start doing this so i started opening my uh my first start filming my first episodes and the uh the rest is history you know it was nice to be able \[25:37 - 25:50\] it's one thing to create content uh and do videos but it's another thing to have a deep dive with key people that that inspire you where you really get to you know connect with with the community and and much more kind of uh you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know Malak \[25:50 - 26:12\] of you know personal in a way and that's the beauty of podcasts right hatem because you can spend as long as you want talking about specific subjects you can drill down deep and you already know that you have people who are going to be interested in that subject so you know you're not going to appeal to everyone but the people you appeal to you're going to Hatem Alakeel \[26:12 - 26:49\] appeal to very deeply absolutely and across all industries so we had uh collaborated with the saudi cup which was uh you know an honor where we we interviewed key people from uh Prince Bandar Alfaisal to Princess Nourah Alfaisal um Dina Abiraziz who's our fashion icon, i'm sure, she's literally the first Arab woman to go to the you know uh Met Galas, Vanity Fair, international parties like a global ambassador for fashion, uh we look up to her and she has also been a force in fashion uh \[26:50 - 27:25\] who is a designer for Claire Danes and Michelle Obama, yes very well known, yeah told me that he stocked his first collection at DNA boutique in Riyadh which is uh Princess Dina's uh boutique so imagine you know like the the impact that certain people have you know we have also had Farida Khalfe who is someone who i respect tremendously. We brought her to Saudi, we had the fashion fan who's the first um arab uh supermodel yeah so it doesn't just stop at uh Saudi it's Saudi- centric but we are inclusive of the MENA, we're inclusive to all the people who have contributed \[27:25 - 27:32\] to the arabic landscape in a positive way. When we come back, we talk about the root-and-branch Malak Fouad \[27:32 - 27:38\] transformation underway in Saudi Arabia and how Hatem sees his legacy. That's after this break. \[27:45 - 27:48\] Welcome back you're listening to my conversation with Hatem Alakeel. Malak \[27:50 - 28:26\] i want to talk about Saudi Arabia as a country that is coming in from the cold going into a new phase. You're in the heart of it. Ss a lot of my listeners know i grew up in Saudi from the mid-70s to the mid-80s in Jeddah and i went back to Jeddah a year ago. And i was lucky enough to attend the Islamic Art Biennale and visit AlUla and i was blown away by what I saw. I saw a modern country, I saw a very proud \[28:26 - 28:47\] country. I saw a country uh opening up to outsiders wanting to show their traditions, and um and and and show their heritage and I wanted your take on how has it happened, where is it going and and just Hatem Alakeel \[28:47 - 29:26\] your thoughts on it. Well i have one word, MBS, yeah it is a vision that he has had uh the 2030 vision is paramount and is has changed all our lives. All the things that we we dreamed of are now happening. You know i remember when I first started designing you know imagine if I had that infrastructure, imagine you know, the possibilities and the opportunities that Alhamdu'llah, I've had the opportunities but imagine how much more. So he's literally giving all the elements that we dreamed of on a silver platter and it's not just about the vision, it's also about the execution and the planning and you look at all the the people that are being hired, \[29:26 - 29:56\] ministers, ambassadors, all young, all dynamic or progressive in their thinking uh it's a math i mean this is what it takes really it's a question uh the vision is also clearly has a lot of passion and clearly there is a lot of passion towards heritage towards culture and look at any country now and look at the country that really is synonymous with heritage and celebrating its culture is Saudi Arabia you know we we uh utilize all the the elements of heritage in all our countries Malak \[29:56 - 30:26\] um i think it's also very interesting that after uh the Khashoggi killing when MBS was shunned for a few years how he has now been completely embraced and part of the landscape and every consultant is flocking to Saudi Arabia to work on all these mega projects neom AlUla etc. \[30:26 - 30:59\] And all the, you know, Biden, the United Kingdom, everyone is coming back and has embraced Saudi again, as if that incident never happened. And I find it interesting. Is it possibly because the world economy is not doing so well and they realize they can't be the schoolmaster telling Saudi, no, you cannot be included, you will stay on the side. \[30:59 - 31:11\] They realize they have to embrace Saudi. Saudi is a very important market, very important country, and they have to accept that this is a reality and that they, you know. They have to deal with him now. Hatem Alakeel \[31:11 - 31:39\] I mean, I think that the vision is definitely what people are starting to see now, you know, whether it's art, like we had discussed, whether it's fashion, whether it's the evolution of so many incredible women who are at the forefront in positions, leading and showing the way, you know. The media always likes to exaggerate things, unfortunately, you know, but it's come to a point now where social media has made the world a lot smaller. \[31:40 - 32:01\] And people are not dumb or deaf anymore, and they can see the beauty of the culture, the beauty of the community, how genuine we are about how we feel and how over the years we have not been able to express ourselves. So everyone is able to kind of flourish and show who they are and show what they're about, you know. Malak \[32:01 - 32:39\] And I think also, if we look at it in a bigger picture, the geopolitical aspect. With this war in Gaza. I think. I think because masks have fallen and wherever you sit in the world, no one is above anyone else. And I think for a very long time, there was that feeling of the West looking down at a lot of countries in the Middle East and elsewhere in Africa and so on. And that can't be the case anymore. And I think what we're seeing is we're seeing not just a realignment of. \[32:39 - 33:14\] Of certain countries, but we're seeing we're in a transition phase, I think, where some countries are rising and rising very powerfully. And and I think Saudi is one of them. I think Saudi is going to be, you know, how Egypt had been the leader of the Middle East for a very long time in terms of culture, in terms of power, wealth, etc. I think that role is now. Yeah. Being ceded to Saudi. You know, it's been a long time coming, but I think it is happening. \[33:15 - 33:28\] And I think it's interesting to see to be to be here now and watch it happen. I think as an observer is a very interesting thing to be to be watching. And I'm sure you're you're feeling it, too, where you are. Hatem Alakeel \[33:28 - 33:54\] I mean, we can't tell you how how thrilled we are to see the progress happening. And especially now you have incredible, very dynamic younger generation, you know. That is also given the opportunity to kind of showcase their their creativity, their work, the sites, the gems that we have, the history that we have discovering, you know, from Al-Ula and going back and even deeper. \[33:55 - 34:24\] And then also, let's not forget that we're also that, you know, we have Makkah and Medina, which are major, very important sites that articulate also the balance that we have between being still holding on to our tradition, still holding on to our roots. But also moving forward. And that's what people have to realize is that we need to also respect our values, respect our traditions. And it's only a question of people, again, saying, looking at us as we're not we're no longer seen as primitive. \[34:26 - 34:43\] On the contrary, we're seen as more dynamic and we're seeing as more progressive because we are able to hold on to our traditions, hold on to our heritage and still move forward. I don't know why people, you know, modernity. Modernity means West. It doesn't necessarily have to be that. No, Western culture. Malak \[34:43 - 34:44\] You can do the two. Hatem Alakeel \[34:44 - 35:04\] Yeah, I can do the two. And, you know, Western culture has been has really kind of inspired me over the years. I've learned a lot. I'm grateful to Western culture. But now it's time to also focus on our own culture. And as I mentioned on our identity, and I believe that this is also what Saudi Arabia is doing, tapping into what is their identity and taking it further. Malak \[35:09 - 35:27\] If you were to look back at what you've done so far. What do you think, what for you is, is the most important aspect of what you've done so far? What do you want to be remembered for? What do you feel you'll, you know, you'll leave behind, so to speak? Hatem Alakeel \[35:27 - 35:52\] Someone who made a difference, showing the culture in a different light. Someone who has given opportunity to the creative community. Someone who is, who has. Hopefully a good son, someone who was a good brother, a good friend. Because at the end of the day, when you go, you, you take your good deeds with you. So we should be involved. Malak \[35:52 - 36:06\] That's all you take with you. Nothing else. You're right. And that's what matters. Yeah, absolutely. I hope to one day kind of be able to do something more even for the community that I'm working with. Hatem Alakeel \[36:06 - 36:25\] And I feel like, although I'll always be a designer at heart. What I'm doing. Now, being able to reach out to communities and empower them is, has been much more rewarding. So I hope that the community will, will appreciate and see, see my vision, you know, when I'm gone. Malak \[36:25 - 36:36\] And, and do you feel that you have another turning point in you coming up? Or do you feel that this is the path you're, you're, you're happy to continue on for now? Hatem Alakeel \[36:36 - 37:13\] I haven't even started my, my checklist. That's amazing. I haven't even started. There's a lot that I want to accomplish across the board. Um, whether it's, it's film, whether it's fashion, whether even fashion, you know, even, um, creating, uh, an infrastructure and ecosystem that's even more pronounced, uh, for the creative community and people don't keep forgetting the creative community is not just artists and you have entrepreneurs, you have poets, you have so many people that are incredible that need to have a voice. And, uh, we've been able to do. Yeah. \[37:13 - 37:17\] And do that professionally, you know, so, uh, inshallah, I hope to continue doing that. Malak \[37:17 - 37:32\] Have you considered just, uh, as a, as something that just, I thought of now, have you considered of putting together some kind of creative summit in Saudi and inviting people from the region, not just from within? Is that something you're considering to do? Hatem Alakeel \[37:33 - 37:34\] That's a great idea, actually. Malak \[37:35 - 37:36\] Yeah. Let's talk. Hatem Alakeel \[37:36 - 37:37\] Yes, absolutely. Malak \[37:40 - 37:43\] Hatem, thank you so much. This was amazing. Thank you. Other speaker \[37:43 - 37:49\] Thank you. It's my, it's really a pleasure and thank you for giving me this opportunity and, uh, I'm honored to be part of the, your podcast. Thank you. Malak Fouad \[37:52 - 38:32\] That was my episode with designer Hatem Alakeel, founder of Authenticite and host of the Gems of Arabia podcast. Hatem is a three-time winner of the Esquire Awards for Best Regional Designer. If you're a member of the show, you'll get a bonus episode with Hatem next week, where we talk about how he began supporting the creative community in Saudi Arabia and his diverse cultural life. You can also find extended clips from our episodes on YouTube and connect with us on Instagram X and on LinkedIn. Just search for What I Did Next. Thank you for joining me today. You've been listening to What I Did Next from A&T Media. I'm Malak Fouad and the show is produced by Chirag Desai. See you again in a couple of weeks. ### Bonus: Janan Shihadeh on honing her craft URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-janan-shihadeh/ Last updated: 2024-03-26T09:00:14.000Z We’re continuing my conversation from last week with bespoke artist Janan Shihadeh. On this bonus episode, Janan talks art techniques, how she had to adapt to living and honing her craft in Cairo, and we unpack her cultural life. Links - [Maison825](https://maison825.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) by Tala Shalaby and Sara Kalo - [Samo Shalaby’s website](https://samoshalaby.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Janan Shihadeh URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/janan-shihadeh/ Last updated: 2024-07-30T07:29:39.000Z I’m delighted to welcome the uber-talented Janan Shihadeh to the show this week. Janan has made her mark creating bespoke pieces for clients all around the world—from murals in Washington D.C., to furniture and candles in Cairo, to transforming old handbags into little arm-candy jewels in Dubai. And yet, she doesn’t like being called an artist: > *I’m a very good technician. That’s how I’d say it. Artists paint from the soul. I’m not that artist. I’m a bespoke artist. I like to get inspired by the client. I like going to decorators and them telling me, ‘I want an 18th century Chinese dining room’. I like that versus you giving me this wall and saying, ‘do what you want’. Where do I start?* This episode has been a long time in the making, we had originally scheduled it for Season 5, and then Season 6\. So I was excited to sit down with Janan a few weeks ago in person, in Dubai, where she now lives. Janan brings passion, imagination, and dynamism to whatever art medium she is working on and her eye for detail and colour is unsurpassed. Janan and I have known each other a long time—we even attended the same school in Jeddah! But interviewing someone and knowing someone socially are very different. As a friend, Janan is fun and mischievous. As a guest, she comes across as passionate, eager to tell her story and driven to make her mark through art. #### Transcript Malak Fouad \[00:07 - 00:27\] Welcome back to What I Did Next from A&T Media. I'm Malak Fouad. I welcome a new guest from the region on each episode, and we take a deep dive into their lives' most pivotal moments. On today's episode, I talk to the uber-talented, multi-dimensional Janan Shihadeh. We talk about her life's key turning points and why she doesn't like being called an artist. Janan Shihadeh \[00:27 - 00:40\] Calling me an artist per se, like my son? No, I don't like, I feel he's a real artist. I think I'm a very good technician. Yeah, that's how I'd describe it. Malak Fouad \[00:40 - 00:41\] I can't believe you're saying that. Janan Shihadeh \[00:41 - 00:41\] Why? Malak Fouad \[00:42 - 00:44\] Because you're low-balling yourself completely. Janan Shihadeh \[00:44 - 00:57\] I'm just, no, I'm good. I'm very good at what I do. That I know. But I'm not, you know, artists paint from the soul. I'm not that artist. I'm a bespoke artist. I like starting points. Malak Fouad \[00:57 - 00:57\] Okay. Janan Shihadeh \[00:57 - 01:24\] I like the client to get inspired by the client. I do get inspired by people. Yeah. And they give me energy. And I like that. Yeah. I like going to decorators and telling me, listen, look at this dining room. I want an 18th century Chinese dining room. I like that. And then I like the research part and how to do the lacquer. And I've done that. I've done actually an 18th century where the walls were actually lacquered on how many layers we did. I like that versus you giving me the swole and saying, do what you want. Where do I start? You know what I'm saying? Malak Fouad \[01:25 - 01:59\] You need that anchor. For you, it's like an anchor. I do. You need that. Whereas someone like my son hates that. Janan is a Palestinian-American artist who's made her mark creating bespoke pieces for clients around the world, whether they be murals in Washington, D.C., furniture and candles in Cairo, or transforming old discarded handbags into little arm candy jewels, or creating colorful side tables for cozy lounge areas. To say that Janan is versatile is an understatement. She brings passion, imagination, and dynamism to whatever art medium she's working \[01:59 - 02:33\] on. And her eye for detail and color is unsurpassed. This episode has been a long time in the making. It was originally scheduled for season five and then season six. So I was really excited to finally sit down with Janan in person in Dubai, where she now lives. Janan and I have known each other a long time. We even attended the same school in Jeddah way back when. But interviewing someone and knowing someone socially are very different. As a friend, Janan is fun and mischievous. As a guest, she comes across as passionate, eager to tell her story and driven to make her mark through \[02:33 - 02:40\] art. Janan is someone who discovered her passion for art early in life while growing up in Chicago. Janan Shihadeh \[02:40 - 03:04\] I used to always take my mom's lipstick and paint on the walls and she'd hit my hand and I'd do it again and again until one day, I think it was my dad or her, said, why don't we get her a jotting and I started. I guess that was my first and I just got obsessed. I remember I could I could sit Malak Fouad \[03:04 - 03:15\] there and jot for hours. And that was when you were you were in Chicago for how long? Until I was like maybe nine. OK. And then we came to Saudi. And yeah. And then we. And your heritage is what Janan? Janan Shihadeh \[03:15 - 03:53\] I'm Palestinian. Both parents. OK. And my dad was always very proud of Palestine. So we never lived there. But I mean, I feel like I feel so proud to be Palestinian. And he was. Very much into politics. So I remember my childhood was him with with young politicians and they just discuss Palestine all night and my mom would be cooking and. So you grew up around that? I grew up around that. I grew up around around. He was always being followed. Was he was he in politics? He was in politics. He he he was a professor of nuclear \[03:53 - 04:11\] physics. He was he had a column in the Chicago Tribune for a long time. And he was he was just a real. Really brilliant debater and speaker and was offered amazing positions, but never took them because he felt. He might be compromised because it wasn't you're not really free. Malak Fouad \[04:12 - 04:18\] So he wanted to remain independent. Yeah. Yeah. And then at some point in your was in your teens, Janan Shihadeh \[04:18 - 04:43\] you moved to Egypt. So we know. And then we moved to Saudi. And then after that, we went to to where we always had a home in London. Right. And then we went to boarding school there. And then after boarding school. My dad was like, my God, my my daughters don't speak Arabic. This is, you know, they have no no sense of culture whatsoever. So we were supposed to go to A.U.B. There was the war in Beirut. So he he sent us to A.U.C. So that's how we came to Cairo. Yeah. Malak Fouad \[04:43 - 04:46\] And at that point, your parents were still married to each other. Yes, they were. Janan Shihadeh \[04:46 - 04:58\] And my mom always loved Cairo because she loves she loves Egyptian movies, Egyptian series. She used to read all the books. She just she was a big fan. So she was very happy. Yeah. To go there. Malak Fouad \[04:59 - 05:03\] And how did you feel about the move? Were you happy with that or? I mean, it was a culture shock for us. Other speaker \[05:04 - 05:08\] Of course. Yeah. And we didn't speak Arabic. Well, so that was that was a bit of a problem. But Janan Shihadeh \[05:09 - 05:26\] it was just very different. I remember going to A.U.C. and wearing, let's say, ripped jeans that I bought from Kings Road, the shop called Flip. That was a really cool vintage shop. I remember everyone saying, you know, like, who is this? Yeah. You know, I just felt it was very nonconformist, you know. Malak Fouad \[05:27 - 05:38\] And at this point throughout your your school years and A.U.C., were you developing your art side, your artistic side? Or was that just a hobby or was it something you were thinking that this could become my life? Janan Shihadeh \[05:38 - 05:56\] So I was supposed to go to art school in London, but my dad chose us learning Arabic and going to A.U.C. versus going to Central Saint Martins or Chelsea School of Art. He says, like, no, you know, it's like you have to go and get a proper degree. And so you got what did you study? Mascom. Wow. Yeah. And you were frustrated with that? Other speaker \[05:56 - 05:56\] Very. Malak Fouad \[05:56 - 06:21\] Akeed. The amount of people I've interviewed who actually did exactly what you just said, they they did what their parents wanted. And then when that was out of the system of the parents, they off they off, they went and did what they wanted. Yes. Most of us. Neda Dibs is a good example. Her father wanted her to do a business degree. She went to A.U.B., did it, hated it. Eventually did her architecture degree. Janan Shihadeh \[06:21 - 06:22\] She's brilliant. Malak Fouad \[06:22 - 06:22\] She's brilliant. Janan Shihadeh \[06:22 - 06:23\] I love her. Yeah. Yeah. Malak Fouad \[06:23 - 06:34\] Yeah. So you did the communication. Yes. Degree. Yes. But on the side, you were still painting. You were still developing that. So everyone knows who knew me in A.U.C. Janan Shihadeh \[06:35 - 06:41\] was that I would tell all the professors before the class that I would be sketching. And it's not like I'm not listening to him. This is the way I focus. Malak Fouad \[06:41 - 06:42\] Right. Janan Shihadeh \[06:42 - 07:01\] So I had a notepad with my notes and I had my sketch. So I'd be sketching. And then and a lot of my friends, many years they used to go, I used to go and throw in the bin after and they'd go take my sketches and keep it. And they came and show it to me later. So I'd be sketching either the professor or someone in front of me. It was always like life drawings. And that's how I'd be able to focus. Malak Fouad \[07:01 - 07:04\] But you're totally self-taught or you were at that point. Janan Shihadeh \[07:04 - 07:28\] Completely self-taught. I've always been fascinated by the technical side of paint. Okay. Solvents, how paints are made, you know, and it's great because, you know, ancient Egypt is a perfect example of how they used to bind the pigments and what pigments they'd use and the minerals and all that. So I was already very fascinated by that side. That's why I'm saying that. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm different from an artist, whereas I'm more the technical side. Malak Fouad \[07:29 - 07:38\] Okay. So what you would go and create your own paints and mix and mix and match stuff? When I came back from DC. I see. Okay. Okay. So what happened next after college for you? Janan Shihadeh \[07:38 - 07:50\] I met Omar while I was still in boarding school. Okay. I was at the party. Met him in Cairo at Christmas. My dad used to take us to Christmas. You know, it was like the best Christmas ever. Malak Fouad \[07:50 - 07:51\] They were the best vacations ever. Janan Shihadeh \[07:51 - 07:52\] And he would take us. Malak Fouad \[07:52 - 07:54\] I would do that every time, every year. Janan Shihadeh \[07:54 - 08:03\] He'd take us as kids to these nightclubs. So focused, you know, they weren't babysitters at the time. And we'd be like me and my sister falling asleep. So I met Omar in one of the parties. So can we just put this in context? Other speaker \[08:03 - 08:05\] Omar is your first husband. Malak Fouad \[08:05 - 08:22\] Yes. The father of your children. Yes. But how you met each other and how the relationship developed. Yes. Is a movie in its own right. It's a mini series. It is. Yeah. I've been asked that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So you met when you were in boarding school. Janan Shihadeh \[08:22 - 08:33\] You know, it's a huge love story. You come back and forth from boarding school. I was in a girls boarding school in Sussex and we'd have to like keep a look out the windows because there was a guy coming to visit me. Malak Fouad \[08:33 - 08:42\] And I remember those I had. Yeah, I was in a similar boarding school, girls boarding school and everything was always illicit, you know, and against the rules. And yeah. Janan Shihadeh \[08:43 - 08:51\] And I was great at it. Look, I put, you know, pillows under my bed and took off to London. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Never got caught. Malak Fouad \[08:51 - 08:55\] She wants like I got I did the same, but I got caught the first time I did it. Janan Shihadeh \[08:55 - 08:56\] Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. Malak Fouad \[08:58 - 09:01\] So Omar was already in the picture when you were in boarding school. Janan Shihadeh \[09:01 - 09:11\] I met him when we were in boarding school. And then when I came to AUC, you know, he was showing me around and we and then we rekindled our relationship. Malak Fouad \[09:11 - 09:13\] And you were what at this point? You were 21? Janan Shihadeh \[09:14 - 09:33\] Yeah, I was in I was still in college. And and then by mere coincidence, strange circumstances. Yeah. I find out that my my mom is marrying his father. And we never made the connection because they both had different last names. Malak Fouad \[09:33 - 09:36\] So how old were you when your parents divorced? Janan Shihadeh \[09:37 - 09:37\] 17. Malak Fouad \[09:37 - 09:39\] And so your mother met Omar's father? Janan Shihadeh \[09:40 - 10:07\] Later. Yeah. Later on. Yeah. And then and I knew that my mom, you know, was with this. But my mom had moved out. She was she was in London this whole time. She went back to London. And then I knew she was with this person. But and I knew he had a son called Amr. But we did not know when we found out. My dad just freaked out. I remember he got me the map of the states and just put it out in front of me. And he's like, right now, right now, you choose you choose city to go live in. And I just started panicking. Malak Fouad \[10:08 - 10:10\] He wanted you out of Cairo. Yeah. Janan Shihadeh \[10:10 - 10:34\] He's like, this is not happening. You know, I like the guy. He loved him. He loved Amr. He's like, I like the guy. He's a great guy. But I can't take this. What was it about the situation that bothered your father? My mom marrying his dad and the fact that he was Muslim. I'm Christian. I'm Catholic. Right. So that didn't help. But also Palestinians want to keep Palestinians together as much as possible because we're being diluted with each generation. Malak Fouad \[10:34 - 10:34\] Of course. Janan Shihadeh \[10:34 - 10:36\] But he liked Omar. I mean, Amr was his great boyfriend. Malak Fouad \[10:36 - 10:37\] Yeah, as a person he liked him. Janan Shihadeh \[10:37 - 10:48\] Yeah, yeah, he did. But he's like, this can't happen. So I did that. I took the next flight out and I chose DC because it reminded me of London from pictures. I'd never been there. It does look similar. Yeah. Yeah. The New England. Malak Fouad \[10:49 - 10:49\] Georgetown. Yeah. Janan Shihadeh \[10:49 - 11:03\] It's a bit like Chelsea. When I went and lived in Georgetown. Yeah. And he spoiled me. He got me a nice car, nice flat, blah, blah, blah. And yeah. And so for two years we had actually broken up, but it was very painful. It was very like. Malak Fouad \[11:03 - 11:05\] And a first love and a first breakup is traumatic. Janan Shihadeh \[11:06 - 11:08\] Yeah. It really is. It was traumatic. Malak Fouad \[11:08 - 11:10\] But it opened up another world for you in America. Janan Shihadeh \[11:10 - 11:11\] Absolutely. Malak Fouad \[11:11 - 11:18\] And it opened up your passion for art. But what had you been doing in Washington up until that point? Janan Shihadeh \[11:18 - 11:22\] Looking for a job. But he just saw me go and just deal with it. Okay. Malak Fouad \[11:22 - 11:23\] Find something to do. Janan Shihadeh \[11:23 - 11:24\] Yeah. Okay. Malak Fouad \[11:24 - 11:28\] So I went and I didn't know what to do. Janan Shihadeh \[11:28 - 11:51\] So I'm walking down the street and I see a billboard on a, on a wall saying, assistant mural assistant needed, and it was just like a lightning bolt just hit me in the head. Like, I just realized this is what I wanted to do. I don't know why it was that moment. I'll never forget. It was like, that's what I want to be doing. I want to be painting buildings. Other speaker \[11:51 - 11:51\] Wow. Malak Fouad \[11:53 - 12:16\] Yeah. Janan's evolution as an artist and mural painter. That's right after this break. Welcome back. You're listening to What I Did Next with my guest, Janan Shahedi. Before the break, Janan was telling me how she was wandering the streets of Washington, DC and decided to answer an ad to paint murals. Janan Shihadeh \[12:16 - 12:55\] And I'm sitting there and I look at the line. There's like, oh my God, there's a lot of people who want this job. Shit, I'm not going to get this job. I go, I sit with him and then I'm like, he's not going to hire because I see everyone with these big fat portfolios from Parsons, RISD, all these great schools. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm not going to get in. So I thought I'd play the pity card. So I told him I'm a struggling artist and I basically can't live without even the minimum wage. Could you please, I'll do anything. So he hired me as a studio cleaner. Meanwhile, this is very, I'm living in \[12:55 - 13:34\] Georgetown and a very nice flat. And he has no idea. BMW, my dad's not over. And he had no idea, you know. But did he hire you as a cleaner and then also hire a muralist? Yes. Okay. So he hired an assistant, but didn't hire me and hired me as the cleaner. And he told me, don't you dare go near any mural. And what is the name of the artist? Does he know? Byron Peck. He's quite known. So I did the taping very well. I cleaned the brushes and I'm looking at this assistant that he hired and I'm looking at her like, she's really crap. You know, I could do this so much better than her. I just knew it, but I didn't have a portfolio from, you know, and she was really annoying. \[13:35 - 13:42\] And she was going out with this actor, Bill Paxton at the time, the guy that did Apollo. And he'd come pick her up in his Ferrari and take her. And I'm like, Malak Fouad \[13:44 - 13:46\] And here I am cleaning brushes. Janan Shihadeh \[13:47 - 13:49\] And getting coffee for everyone. Malak Fouad \[13:49 - 13:50\] And getting coffee for them. Janan Shihadeh \[13:50 - 13:58\] So anyway, one day we're painting this. So don't forget at the time you were getting paid by the hour. Okay. So, you know, and she's really slow. Malak Fouad \[13:58 - 13:59\] On purpose. Janan Shihadeh \[14:00 - 14:39\] I don't know if it's on purpose. She's just not very, I'm known to be very quick. I've always been known to be quite quick when it comes to, you know, so I'm looking at her painting. We were doing this restaurant called South Beach and Adams Morgan. So Adams Morgan ended up doing like half the street later. Like I did, I painted so many things there. So she's doing a mural of South Beach and she's going and painting the window and looking at it from a distance and sipping her coffee and taking, and I'm like, Very pretentious. Not pretentious, slow. Just slow. And over entitled. Yeah. If you can call it that. So yeah. So she goes to lunch hour and I'm like, so I just, I just take the brushes and I finished that mural. Malak Fouad \[14:40 - 14:41\] In the same day? Janan Shihadeh \[14:41 - 14:41\] In that hour. Malak Fouad \[14:42 - 14:42\] Oh my God. Janan Shihadeh \[14:42 - 14:43\] It was like I was possessed. Malak Fouad \[14:44 - 14:47\] How funny. So she comes back. Come on. Janan Shihadeh \[14:47 - 15:03\] And she has a hissy fit. And then Byron comes by and I thought he'd be really happy. He fired me. Right. He told me, I told you not, not to touch a paintbrush. Yeah. You know, against the rules, you know, you've hurt her feelings, you know, I was wrong. Malak Fouad \[15:03 - 15:05\] But he saw the talent. Janan Shihadeh \[15:05 - 15:11\] But I, so I went, so I used to come with my roller blades back. Cause he couldn't see that I had a car because he still thinks I'm a struggling artist. Malak Fouad \[15:11 - 15:18\] Yeah. You're also an actress clearly. So you left. Janan Shihadeh \[15:18 - 15:35\] So I left like with my tail, I was so upset and you know, I was really upset because I really enjoyed, you know, I just, I thought that I would impress him and it, yeah. But anyway, he calls me a week later. So not only do I go back to work for him, I become his main painter. Oh, wow. Yeah. Malak Fouad \[15:35 - 15:36\] And the assistant becomes your assistant. Janan Shihadeh \[15:36 - 15:51\] No, she, she left, she left the job. She couldn't handle it. And but I had, I had 13 people working under me. So with him, and then he would just, you know, he just leave me stuff to do and just leave to Brazil, leave Tony. Malak Fouad \[15:51 - 15:53\] So it was his name on the door, but it was your work. Janan Shihadeh \[15:53 - 15:54\] Oh, he'd make us sign. Malak Fouad \[15:55 - 15:55\] Oh, he would. Janan Shihadeh \[15:55 - 16:01\] Yeah. He was great that way. Yeah. So he had a lot of faith in me. He was really, That's amazing. Other speaker \[16:01 - 16:04\] Yeah. It's an amazing story. What did you take away from that experience? Janan Shihadeh \[16:05 - 16:31\] Oh my God. So much best years. Yeah. I loved it. First of all, I learned a new medium because we use silica paint. Yeah. Which is neither oil nor, nor water. It's and it's also, so I just went back and saw a mural I did 25 years ago and the colors are perfect. Wow. No fading, no UV, nothing. Amazing. Yeah. I also did furniture at night to, uh, I just didn't want to think about my status with Omar. I was heartbroken. Malak Fouad \[16:31 - 16:33\] So you threw yourself into it. Janan Shihadeh \[16:33 - 17:01\] Totally threw myself into it. Totally. I was obsessed. So I was great for Byron because he was like, I've got this little workaholic here. Yeah. Who's doing a lot for the hour. Right. Right. Exactly. So we were finishing more projects and then in the end we became partners because I was the one on the street. He had vertigo funnily enough. He actually wouldn't go up to paint. Oh, wow. So I, I met a lot of potential clients and I'd go to him and say, listen, this person liked what we did. And he, so he's like, listen, we've got to be partners because you gave me all this work. Sure. So. Malak Fouad \[17:02 - 17:04\] And how long were you doing all this for? Janan Shihadeh \[17:04 - 17:05\] Four years. Malak Fouad \[17:05 - 17:13\] Oh, four years. You stayed that long there. Yeah. And what ended it? What stopped? I mean, why did that phase come to an end? Janan Shihadeh \[17:13 - 17:23\] So, uh, Omar's dad, uh, they had the Sheraton hotel and he came to meet the company to, uh, to hire a woman. Malak Fouad \[17:24 - 17:27\] It was like his, his very undercover way of getting you. Other speaker \[17:27 - 17:33\] And I remember Byron telling me you're not coming back. I'm like, don't be silly. You know, they really like our work. They really want us to paint. He's like, no, he's doing this. Cause he Malak Fouad \[17:33 - 17:37\] wants you to be with Omar. So that's exactly what happened. And your dad and all this. Janan Shihadeh \[17:38 - 17:46\] So my dad was in New York at the time he was living in Connecticut. So, uh, and, and he, we eloped in Cairo when I went and then we went back to New York. Malak Fouad \[17:46 - 17:48\] And your father didn't know all this beforehand. Janan Shihadeh \[17:49 - 17:51\] He was very upset with me. He didn't speak to me for five years. Malak Fouad \[17:52 - 17:56\] Really? Hmm. Oh, wow. Shanann that must've been really hard. Yeah. Very hard. Very difficult. Janan Shihadeh \[17:56 - 17:59\] Yeah. And I'm really a daddy's girl. Yeah. Yeah. It was tough. Malak Fouad \[17:59 - 18:03\] And so you eloped because you knew you wouldn't get your father's blessing. Janan Shihadeh \[18:04 - 18:29\] Because I was in Cairo at the time and basically I was whisked to this office. I don't know what I was. I had a fever at the time. I wasn't, I was, I was sick, but just signing papers and I don't, it was all a blur to me. And then he was like, basically Amr Islam took control and basically said, okay, you remember? I'm married now. Both of you, you've both been miserable. I can't, you know, off to New York and go and tell, go, go be a man and. Malak Fouad \[18:29 - 18:32\] And go tell your father-in-law. Yes. And your mom in all this? Janan Shihadeh \[18:33 - 18:39\] She, she wasn't really for it. She was neutral. She, she, you know, she, she knew it would be a lot of heartbreak for me. Malak Fouad \[18:39 - 18:40\] Because of your dad? Janan Shihadeh \[18:41 - 18:45\] My dad and me. And she saw me thriving in the States and she was like, Malak Fouad \[18:45 - 18:46\] Yeah. Janan Shihadeh \[18:46 - 19:01\] So I wasn't looking back now, I was at a crossroads and I was doing so well in the States. I was making so much money at the time. Yeah. Did really well, you know, and then I choose and I go to Cairo and then there's. Malak Fouad \[19:01 - 19:02\] It's another world completely. Janan Shihadeh \[19:02 - 19:09\] Yeah. I get asked to paint cherubs and flowers and. All the, all the classic traditional stuff. You know, I'm like, oh no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Malak Fouad \[19:11 - 19:29\] It's interesting. There are so many, I think everyone has this in their lives where you have that sliding door moment, you know, that movie, remember? I absolutely love that movie. It's so true. It's so true. If you had taken door one, you would have had one life. And if you take door two or, or subway or, or, you know. Janan Shihadeh \[19:29 - 19:41\] Like if I stayed in DC, I know, I know the man who I would have probably ended up with. Right. And I know what I would have been doing because there, yeah, there was a man and I just never gave him a chance. And looking back now, he was actually really quite wonderful and super, but I just didn't give him a. Malak Fouad \[19:41 - 19:41\] You didn't give him a chance. Janan Shihadeh \[19:41 - 19:46\] I didn't give him a chance. Yeah. Cause I was, I was, you know, hung up on the idea of Omar. Malak Fouad \[19:49 - 20:10\] When we come back, Shannan tells me about her move to Dubai and the exciting Mercedes, she's a Shannan campaign. That's right after this break. Welcome back. You're listening to my conversation with Shannan Shahadi. In 2013, after two decades in Cairo, she moved to Dubai. Janan Shihadeh \[20:11 - 20:19\] So we were in LA every year. We used to go to LA every year. Um, it was my dream to retire there, be on Venice beach paint, you know, I have my bicycle. Other speaker \[20:19 - 20:22\] Venice beach has a ton of murals too. Yes. That's very much. Janan Shihadeh \[20:22 - 20:43\] Yeah. And actually what took me to Venice was, uh, what made me go there? We were going for the last 18 years. It was the movie Xanadu. Oh yeah, of course. Because the murals, I was like, I need, that's why I just, all my life I was meant to be a muralist. Yeah. That's I really believe that was my calling. Yeah. Yeah. On our way back, there was the Rabaa massacre. Yep. So the airport was closed. Malak Fouad \[20:43 - 20:47\] That was the day of my 40th birthday. Oh dear. Other speaker \[20:47 - 21:03\] Yeah. That day. That day. So that day, the 40th birthday, we got stuck in London. Right. And Omar just thought this was a sign not to go back. And I remember him sitting in the room, the poor thing, wearing his bathrobe. What do I do with my family? I can't go back. This is crazy. Janan Shihadeh \[21:03 - 21:06\] And me as a Pasir, I'm like, come on, it's fine. Let's go back. Malak Fouad \[21:06 - 21:07\] You have a thicker skin. Halas. Janan Shihadeh \[21:07 - 21:18\] Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It was always, Omar was the type that would get, if the kids were sick, he would be the hands-on, bring all the doctors in Cairo over. And I'll be like, halas, they just have a fever. It's not a big deal. Malak Fouad \[21:18 - 21:21\] And I'm like you, my husband's more, more of the mother hen. Janan Shihadeh \[21:22 - 21:39\] Right. He is the mother hen. Yeah. So I remember sitting there and he's like, okay, we'll go to Dubai. And we took a hotel room and just, I had to get my mother hen. I had to find a school in mid-August in Dubai for the kids. It was a bit of a, and I was like, nonstop crying. I hated it. I remember there was a massive exodus out of Egypt then. Yes. Malak Fouad \[21:39 - 21:43\] At that same, yeah. A lot of people panicked and didn't go back. So you settled here. Janan Shihadeh \[21:43 - 22:01\] So I settled in a flat, the size of my bedroom in Egypt. You know how our homes are big there. And I remember praying with all my heart saying, God, I mean, I used to have all these companies and now I'm sitting here. I don't know what to do. I don't have workers. Of course. You know, like in Egypt, I have workers. Other speaker \[22:02 - 22:05\] You had your whole team. You had developed a team. Huge team. And taught them. Malak Fouad \[22:05 - 22:09\] And taught them. And they've been with me for years. And here in Egypt, I'm in a city where Other speaker \[22:09 - 22:14\] you don't have unemployed people walking around. That's also very tricky. Like I can't hire a Janan Shihadeh \[22:14 - 22:52\] painter. I need to bring them from abroad and a second and lodging and insurance. Of course. So I just sat there and prayed and prayed with all my heart. What am I supposed to do now? I'm a workaholic. I'll go nuts. I can't. I can't just sit here. So I didn't know. Yeah, I went crazy. But my answers were, my prayers were answered in the most bizarre way, where a friend of mine in Egypt insisting for such a long time to paint on her bag. I'm like, why would she want to paint on her Birkin? And not just any bag, a Birkin. \[22:52 - 23:13\] And she kept it. And I never had time. I never had time. And then finally she's like, you're in Dubai now. Now you can paint my bag. And she brought me the bag and it just, it just, that was it. And I looked up to the sky. I'm like, is this what you had in mind for me? Because it was actually a perfect answer to my prayer because it's something I can do in my little flat. I didn't have to get a studio. I didn't have to look for workers. Malak Fouad \[23:13 - 23:14\] It was just you. Janan Shihadeh \[23:14 - 23:15\] It was just perfect. Malak Fouad \[23:15 - 23:18\] Yeah. So that was another light bulb moment for you. Janan Shihadeh \[23:18 - 23:36\] Absolutely. And then I had one of my best friends in London had a huge, a very, one of the third, she was one of the third biggest vintage stores, Claudia. And I called her up. I mean, listen, do you have any bags you haven't sold? She's like, yeah, a lot. I'm like, give them to me. Let's paint them and see what will happen. Malak Fouad \[23:36 - 23:37\] That's clever of you. Janan Shihadeh \[23:37 - 23:43\] And Harvey Nichols just bought all the collections for like, we were there for like six years. Malak Fouad \[23:43 - 23:50\] That's what I meant by saying, did you have a collection that you sold? So you did, you started that way. Janan Shihadeh \[23:50 - 24:09\] I started painting my own collection and then, and I had no clients in Dubai. Right. So I'd be waiting every month for a box from London of vintage bags. I'd paint and, you know, and send them back. They did so well. I went to the opening and all the Egyptians in London came and supported me. It was really, really very nice. Malak Fouad \[24:09 - 24:10\] And why didn't that continue? Janan Shihadeh \[24:11 - 24:31\] It didn't, it didn't continue because Chanel in Harrods said, said, we're going to sue Harvey Nichols. Why are you selling our bags painted? And Harvey Nichols was like, it's vintage. They're over 20 years, which means over 20 years old. We're allowed to paint them. And they're like, yeah, but prove it. Malak Fouad \[24:31 - 24:32\] It became a legal problem. Janan Shihadeh \[24:32 - 24:47\] It became a legal problem. And which they would never have won, but they didn't want to go through the legal headache of it, but we did very well. And the fact that we did so well was what brought Chanel's attention to the fact of why are you, you know, Louis Vuitton had no problem with it. Malak Fouad \[24:47 - 24:47\] Right. Janan Shihadeh \[24:47 - 24:55\] By then the director here had seen one of my bags on a friend, went up to her, who did this, contacted me. And then I became the main painter for Louis Vuitton here. Malak Fouad \[24:56 - 24:58\] And so they did their, they did a line. Janan Shihadeh \[24:58 - 25:01\] No. They just all. Their clients that wanted stuff would, they would give it to me. Malak Fouad \[25:02 - 25:05\] Oh, I see. Okay. And they were aware and they were fine with that. Janan Shihadeh \[25:05 - 25:20\] They were very happy with it. They were very happy with it. Well, it gives the bags a new lease of life. And all their VIP clients would just, uh, ask, you know, I had this Indian, he wanted his, uh, his actual, the Maharaja's elephant on his, uh, on his luggage. Malak Fouad \[25:20 - 25:20\] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Janan Shihadeh \[25:21 - 25:30\] It's his, you know, or the, or I did for the Royal, uh, Bahrain, uh, they, their, their emblem and their, uh, their, uh, what's it called? Emblem. What's it? Yeah. Heraldry. Malak Fouad \[25:30 - 25:31\] The, the, the ancestry. Janan Shihadeh \[25:32 - 25:39\] The heraldry emblem on all their luggage. So this was all from their Louis Vuitton, uh, you know, VIP clients. Malak Fouad \[25:39 - 25:44\] Yeah. So you did the bag, you, you still do bags. Uh, and then Mercedes approached you. Janan Shihadeh \[25:44 - 26:24\] So Mercedes approached me at the lowest point in my life. Okay. I had just divorced, unfortunately. Um, um, that was really tough on me. I lost my father a few weeks after my kids went off to college. All of a sudden, Wow. You had three big things in one. And at once. Yeah. And one of my, and one of my dogs died. It was just, it was just like a, you know, when they say it was just like, what about, what about, yeah. And I had done a bag for Mrs. Gargash. Um, who's the agent of the wife of the, yeah. And I meet her with Rosamund bless her. I don't know if you know, Rosamund, Manji. And she took me to her by literally by force. She \[26:24 - 26:31\] just, it's like almost like it was a calling. They pulled me, they were trying to pull me out of this dark space. I was, cause I just felt my entire life crumbling. Malak Fouad \[26:31 - 26:37\] And at this point, you're not, you'd been in Dubai. How long? A couple of years by then. Janan Shihadeh \[26:38 - 27:18\] Yeah. Like, uh, three, four years. Okay. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was already established in the, in the bag business and stuff. And she's like, you know, they had, I don't know how many in the world that they were trying and they chose me. And I'm like, you know, she's like, no, one's going to do it, but you, and she kept insisting that you are going to, and I tried, you know, I said, listen, I'm grieving my dad. I'm, you know, and she's like, but this, this might help you, you know, and it was incredible. And I remember sitting and my kids helping me cause I wasn't good at computers at the time. Yeah. And I had to come up with the design and I had the design and, and, you know, I remember my daughter was really good with the, and my son both helping me with the, and I gave him the proposal and they were like, yes. Malak Fouad \[27:18 - 27:51\] And it just, and that for you, cause it's interesting. So when you went to Washington as a young woman, you, you did it because you were trying to forget. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something else. And then Dubai, uh, two years after you have having been here, you threw yourself into your work again, trying to forget something. So work has, oh, work has always been your mainstay. And it, and it's always been there. You're constant saving you. Art saves me. Yeah. Art always saves me. It really does. And how was the reaction to Janan Shihadeh \[27:51 - 28:07\] the Mercedes? Oh my God. It was huge. It was huge. Massive, massive. You had, you did one car? Millions of views. You did one car? Did one car that was driving around town by all the notables, all the shoes, all the, for like, yeah, six or eight months, I think. Uh-huh. Just Malak Fouad \[28:07 - 28:26\] everywhere. It was great. And how long did it take you to do? Three months. Yeah. Wow. That's a lot. And, and how did you come up with a design? Did you think of it yourself or did they advise you as to what they wanted? No, no, no, no. Totally thought of it myself. Totally you. Okay. They were trying to get the G G wagon. Yeah. To appeal to women. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Janan Shihadeh \[28:26 - 28:43\] I see. So they felt that the G wagon in Dubai is very much a man's car. Right. So I did a feminine take on it and we all drove it around to. Nice. And did it work? I think it did. Did more women buy it? I don't know that I didn't get the, the data for that. Yeah. Well, I think, Malak Fouad \[28:43 - 28:48\] I mean, I've seen a lot of women driving that car now, so maybe, maybe, but they did this whole Janan Shihadeh \[28:48 - 29:09\] video. She's Mercedes. She's Janann campaign. It was really nice. And then we had a big opening at the Layla Heller gallery. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. And everybody, it was amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So many people flew in from Egypt. Like this is what I mean by Egyptians are really good. Yeah. I love them with all my heart. Yeah. I get like, well, you're, you're very close friends are Egyptian. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. But it's interesting that you also decided to stay on in Malak Fouad \[29:09 - 29:41\] Dubai. Uh, you became, it became your, your home. Yes. Um, so even though you're very good to me, even though you moved here, not wanting to be here, but then it became completely your home. One of the reasons we didn't have our, uh, interview, I think we had planned it for November, was obviously because of the Gaza war. Yes. This war has, uh, caused you a lot of, um, anxiety and, and has, it's very disturbing, but you've used that to create awareness through your Janan Shihadeh \[29:41 - 30:02\] work. Yes. We did a butterfly initiative where, uh, I painted a butterfly with the Kufa inside to symbolize freedom and our culture, because, um, we were feeling that it was trying to be canceled. They were canceling our culture. So, and they're, they're, um, What's the word for identifying the Kufa as a terrorist? How would, how would you say that in Malak Fouad \[30:02 - 30:09\] a sentence? Oh, it was being wrongly symbolized as a terrorism symbol, right? Actually. I don't Janan Shihadeh \[30:09 - 30:48\] know if you know this, but it's about, um, the net is about the love of, of the sea and fishing and the leaves on the side or the olive trees and the, the lines are the trade routes and yet. It's a very symbolic. So beautiful to symbolize it with terrorism. So I just thought the butterfly, was a symbol of freedom and it just became viral like every so many people would just send me by the hundreds i was just painting i couldn't do my work i was just painting these butterflies for so many people and uh and they would travel with it and they'd and people would come and ask them what is this about and then they would explain to them so it's my little tiny little \[30:48 - 31:01\] little way of raising awareness yeah yeah to what's happening but this this is a very distressing it is a very distressing time i feel i feel bad for our kids i really do you know yeah no i agree Malak Fouad \[31:01 - 31:04\] like i wouldn't be surprised if both my kids came and said i don't want to have kids Janan Shihadeh \[31:07 - 31:24\] tell me a little bit about what you're doing now so i love cycling i'm a cycling uh a bit of a cycling maniac so uh almost every few years i have some sort of cycling accident so uh my latest accident was i broke my elbow that's why we didn't do the interview the first time maybe Malak Fouad \[31:25 - 31:26\] maybe you Janan Shihadeh \[31:26 - 32:03\] , you were sitting with your foot up yeah yeah i'm just i'm just so accident prone so uh i had a bike a cycling accident in uh in in the hamptons actually and uh no oh sorry take that back no that was my knee accident i had in the hamptons okay it was probably the first time we couldn't do it was the maybe it was the knee accident i had in the hampton the next year was my elbow also in new york but uh manhattan and um so i used to work for alberto pinto who's a very famous cyclist in the united states he was a very famous cyclist in the united states he was a very was his decorative painter on some projects and he fortunately let me use his staff who are amazing \[32:03 - 32:38\] and I thought he would tell me his staff were in Syria and Lebanon because he did this inlay work but turned out to be a Palestinian man who lived in Egypt oh wow he became very very good friends so I did a whole line of inlay furniture that did really well I remember you had the most gorgeous bright mirrors yes yes fantastic colors yes yes so those colors I created because I'm I don't want to say you know paint chemist but I came up with a formula that was self-leveling liquid glass that I could do in these incredible colors that I poured rather than inlaid right so me and him \[32:38 - 33:12\] you know he was he was a great guy came up with the way he put the pearl and I would pour the paint and they were gorgeous yeah they were colors were just to die for yeah yeah because I couldn't get those colors in wood yeah ah do you know what I'm saying so that was that's where my paint chemistry comes in yes exactly you're an alchemist there you go that's what we're going to call you I love that people till this day we would like your mirrors we would like your mirrors we would like those mirrors really left a big impression yeah I'm in the queue I love them I never I never went back to do them yeah \[33:12 - 33:50\] so at that time um I had a rather large house and I remember the coffee table being far from me and I created an armrest out of palisander wood with steel inlay so that I could put my coffee here yeah and not have to do it again yeah and I remember the coffee table being far from me time and then i'm like why don't i reverse it and make a c-shaped table so looking into research i didn't i thought i created that table but it turns out no it was there but i hadn't seen it at the time and i did many of them and i did them in in palisander wood with steel with the resins with the with the mother of pearl and a lot of people in egypt loved them and you know even if you've \[33:50 - 34:29\] been to the house they all have those times i hadn't realized that you began this 30 years ago yes i thought this was a new thing that you were doing now the shape is is the old but so i cre i believe i believed at that time that i created this table and alberto printel told me wow this is so clever that you created the c table that goes into the couch versus me bending over so you know but later i found out actually that it was actually created by ancient egyptians oh no way my friend showed me and she's like you're not the creator i'm like okay i thought i was but anyway fast forward to dubai i'm here i i used that table all the time and my elbow was like oh that hurts and then i realized why don't \[34:29 - 34:58\] i make it in leather it'll be soft to my broken elbow and that's how i came up with the idea of making the same table but encased in leather and i have a really cool team now took us also i don't know four months of how to print it perfectly on the sustainable leather where it's completely waterproof wow and the coffee just spills out and i've got my designs on so they're limited edition designs they're cheaper they're lighter they're more versatile and they're just great and is that printed here in Malak Fouad \[34:58 - 35:04\] dubai yes they're made in dubai what's your legacy how do you want to be remembered i know it sounds Janan Shihadeh \[35:04 - 35:30\] cliche i want to be remembered for how i made people feel i like the people who i love to know that they were loved i don't know if i'm going to keep any if any of these clients are going to keep their bags i'm not sure they'll have much of a legacy they'll hand them down to their girls and most of my walls and dc have been have been rebuilt so i've only have one mural left Literally, one mural left. Even that restaurant I did, several restaurants have all been changed. So there's not much legacy in that. Malak Fouad \[35:31 - 35:41\] But I think, Kamen, the legacy is what you've instilled in your kids. That's a huge impact. And that goes down in generations. I always cared about my kids not being zombies. Other speaker \[35:41 - 35:43\] I always cared that I wanted my kids to have passion. Janan Shihadeh \[35:43 - 35:50\] I wanted them to have a passion to, you know, this is what's very important for me. And they do. And they do. Malak Fouad \[35:50 - 35:57\] That's amazing. And that's partly because of when they were kids, they were not doing stuff just to pacify them, right? Janan Shihadeh \[35:57 - 36:00\] Yes, yes. They were having to think about what to do. Malak Fouad \[36:01 - 36:41\] Janan, thank you so much. Really? This was perfect. Was it? It was great. Thank you. That was really great. Thank you so much. Thank you, Habibti. Thank you. That was my episode with bespoke artist Janan Shahedi. You can find out more and shop her collection at Janan Studio Home. And you can find the link in our show notes. If you're a member of this show, you'll get a bonus episode next week where Janan talks art techniques and we unpack her cultural life. You'll also find extended clips from our episodes on our YouTube channel. And you can connect with us on X, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Just search for What I Did Next. Thank you for joining me today. \[36:41 - 36:49\] You've been listening to What I Did Next from A&T Media. I'm Malak Fouad, and the show is produced by Chirag Desai. See you in a couple of weeks. ### Finance World: Diverse stories shaping the Middle East URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/blog/finance-world-diverse-stories-shaping-the-middle-east/ Last updated: 2024-03-29T06:39:37.000Z Finance World spoke to Malak Fouad on navigating identity, failure, and impact through *What I Did Next*: > ‘What I Did Next’ is a platform to bring positive narratives from our region to a global audience \[…\] By celebrating diverse voices and highlighting the achievements of extraordinary role models, we aim to foster a more nuanced and appreciative understanding of the Middle East, ultimately contributing to greater cross-cultural dialogue and empathy. [Read the full article](https://thefinanceworld.com/finance-world-magazine-edition-march-2024/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com&utm%5Fmedium=web) → ### Bonus, with His Excellency Amr Moussa URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-his-excellency-amr-moussa/ Last updated: 2024-03-16T07:36:28.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with His Excellency Amr Moussa, the former Foreign Minister of Egypt. On this bonus episode, he tells me more about his early life and attending law school. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### His Excellency Amr Moussa URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/amr-moussa/ Last updated: 2024-07-30T07:29:49.000Z I’m delighted to welcome His Excellency Amr Moussa, the former Foreign Minister of Egypt as my first guest for Season 7. 💡 This episode is brought to you by: [EFG Holding](https://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s6), a trailblazing financial institution with a Universal Bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). His Excellency Amr Moussa has had a distinguished career in the world of international diplomacy and cooperation. He served as the Ambassador of Egypt to India for 3 years in 1983, he was the Permanent Representative of Egypt to the UN in 1990, he was the Foreign Minister of Egypt for 10 years until 2001, when he became Secretary-General of the League of Arab States. He continues to leave an impact today as an elected member of the Panel of the Wise, a critical pillar of the Peace and Security Architecture of the African Union, and as Chairman of the High-Level Advisory Council to the High Representative for the United Nations Alliance of Civilizations or UNAOC. Amr Moussa has also published the the first part of his memoir, Ketabiyah, with its English translation coming soon. ### A new season begins March 5 URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/a-new-season-begins-march-5/ Last updated: 2024-08-08T12:21:41.000Z I’m excited to be bringing you a fresh look, and a brand new season of *What I Did Next*! Starting next Tuesday, I’ll be welcoming a new guest every other week, and we’ll take a deep-dive into their lives’ pivotal moments. We’ll cross-cross the region and cut across a variety of industries to bring you conversations of success, failure, and everything in-between. This season, I’ll be talking to pioneers from the worlds of art, fashion, business, politics, sustainability, broadcasting and tech. We’ll dig deep to better understand their motivations, and share authentic conversations that I hope will inspire and resonate with you. You can [follow the show in your favourite podcast player](https://listen.amaeya.fm/WIDN/?ref=at-media-group.com) to get alerted for new episodes every other Tuesday. You can also [subscribe to become a member](https://www.at-media-group.com/#/portal/signup/) of the show to get bonus episodes with each guest and all of our previous bonus content as well. See you next week! –Malak ### ‘What I Did Next’: The Leading English-Language Podcast in the Middle East Is Back for Another Deep Dive into the Pivotal Moments of the Region’s Most Visionary Leaders URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/blog/what-i-did-next-is-back-for-another-deep-dive-into-the-pivotal-moments-of-the-regions-most-visionary-leaders-season-7/ Last updated: 2024-02-28T06:06:46.000Z *Join storyteller Malak Fouad for the much-awaited Season 7 of ‘What I Did Next’, starting March 5th* **Dubai, United Arab Emirates, 26 February 2024** – A&T Media, founded by one of the Middle East's most trusted voices, Malak Fouad, is thrilled to announce the launch of Season 7 of the premier interview-based podcast, *What I Did Next* (WIDN). The highly acclaimed podcast has a strong following across the MENA region – resonating profoundly in the region’s top media markets: Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Egypt. Season 7 of the show will air between March 5th through June 25th, and returns with distinguished leaders, tastemakers, and game-changers from the Arab world. The new season is set to maintain the podcast's formidable track record for in-depth and authentic dialogues that go beyond the superficial to understand our region’s key leaders. The show approaches each guest’s life journey from the point of view of their pivots and twists and turns – both professional and personal. Malak Fouad, a seasoned, multilingual communications specialist, began her career in journalism in New York, Cairo, and London, contributing to major publications including the UK’s Punch magazine, the Daily Mail newspaper, Egypt’s French-language newspaper Ahram Hebdo, as well as American glossy magazine powerhouse, Condé Nast. She transitioned into media consultancy and PR in Egypt before founding A&T Media in 2021\. Malak identified a gap in the audio entertainment market and recognised there was a need for audio content that is made *in* the Middle East *for* a regional audience. With an emphasis on high-quality production values, A&T Media is developing podcasts that are intellectually rigorous, attracting high-caliber guests as well as a select audience across the region and beyond. *What I Did Next* is the first podcast from the media house. *What I Did Next* has emerged as a cultural cornerstone, showcasing and celebrating the region’s rich culture – a beacon for positive homegrown narratives. “Podcasting is revolutionizing the way we connect with audiences, allowing us to dig deep with guests that are unparalleled in other mediums,” Malak Fouad reflects. Malak goes on to say, “Podcasts are a fantastically cost-effective advertising stream for companies and brands, allowing you to connect directly with your target audience. Plus, research continues to show that podcast ads have higher brand retention and uplift compared to other advertising tracks. That’s pure gold for marketers.” Apple Podcasts’ Editors chose *What I Did Next* as one of the Best Shows of the Year in 2021 and it was featured in the ‘Podcasts that Make Us Think’ category for 2022. Season 7 of the show is set to inspire listeners with another stellar lineup of hard-hitting guests, including Becky Anderson, Managing Editor, CNN Abu Dhabi, and Anchor. The season also features insights from influential figures like Hatem Alakeel, a trailblazing Saudi fashion designer and branding guru, Janan Shihadeh, a bespoke consumer-led artist, and Mohamed Al Fayed, the UAE-based CEO and founder of Grubtech. Since its February 2021 launch, *What I Did Next* has enriched the Middle East's cultural conversation by hosting a diverse roster of leaders from a variety of industries, including the former Chief Business Officer of Google X and Host of the #1 Mental Health Podcast, *Slo Mo.*, Mo Gawdat, world-renowned heart surgeon, Professor Sir Magdi Yacoub, acclaimed jewellerydesigner Nadine Kanso, Fadi Ghandour, co-founder of Aramex, Hala Gorani, ex CNN anchor, Sultan Sooud Al-Qassemi, academic and art collector and Dr. Lama Al Sulaiman, pioneering Saudi businesswoman, among others. Their powerful stories have left a mark on the show’s fabric, inspiring listeners and setting a high bar for the quality of discourse. Under Malak Fouad's leadership, A&T Media is redefining the podcasting landscape. Her rich journalistic background, nuanced understanding of the region and empathetic interviewing style have made *What I Did Next* ‘the must-listen-to podcast’. The new season of *What I Did Next* as well as its rich back catalog is available on all podcast players, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube Music, and Anghami. \-END- ### **About A&T Media** Founded in 2021 by communications specialist Malak Fouad, A&T Media is a pioneering podcast company based in the Middle East. A&T Media specializes in delivering intellectually stimulating English-language podcasts that are geared towards the Middle East & North Africa region. The company is renowned for producing *What I Did Next*, recognized as one of Apple Podcasts’ Best Shows in 2021 and 2022, and hosted by founder Malak Fouad herself. With an expanding portfolio of shows, A&T Media is set to launch a variety of new podcast series covering a broad spectrum of topics, aimed at engaging listeners across the Middle East and the world. **Social Media:** - [Instagram](https://instagram.com/what.i.did.next/?ref=at-media-group.com) - [Twitter](https://twitter.com/whatididnextpod?ref=at-media-group.com) - Facebook: What I Did Next - LinkedIn: What I Did Next - [Website](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/) **For media inquiries contact:** - Raya Chamoun | [raya@theqode.com](mailto:raya@theqode.com) - Sara El Niel | [sara@theqode.com](mailto:sara@theqode.com) - Kriti Kulshreshtha | [kriti@theqode.com](mailto:kriti@theqode.com) ### A deep-dive with EFG Holding URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/efg-holding-special-episode/ Last updated: 2024-08-08T12:20:47.000Z I hope you enjoyed our [season wrap-up](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/wrapping-up-season-6/) last week. Today’s episode is a deep-dive with our partners, EFG Holding. As a long-time sponsor of the show, EFG Holding have been avant-garde and frontier-breaking, keeping with their own ethos of being a trailblazing financial institution with a Universal Bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank in Frontier and Emerging Markets. This week, I’m sitting down Aladdin El Afifi, CEO of EFG Finance, an EFG Holding company - EFG Holding’s Non-Bank Financial Institutions (NBFI) platform. I also speak to Mohamed Abou Basha, an MD and Head of Macroeconomic Analysis at EFG Hermes Research. We talk about their early career pivots, what brought them to EFG and how the company’s culture and values is at the foundation of their growth. Thank you for joining me on this season of *What I Did Next*. We’ll be back with a new season in March. Until then, you can [catch up on any episodes you’ve missed](https://listen.amaeya.fm/WIDN-2023?ref=at-media-group.com) and also watch segments of our interviews by [following us on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@What-I-Did-Next?ref=at-media-group.com). ### Wrapping up Season 6 URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/wrapping-up-season-6/ Last updated: 2024-08-08T12:20:35.000Z As we come to the end of our season, I’m joined by the show’s producer, Chirag Desai, to look back at some of the highlights from our episodes, and a few common threads among our guests. 💡 This episode is brought to you by: [EFG Holding](https://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s6), a trailblazing financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank franchise in frontier and emerging markets. We also discuss the issue of crisis management. This is a big picture conversation that impacts all of us and comes on the heels of discussions I've had recently with friends about concurrent crises happening around the world. Thank you for joining me on an incredible season 6 of *What I Did Next*, and for your feedback and comments. ### Bonus: Youssra on the future of the regional film industry URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-youssra-on-the-future-of-the-regional-film-industry/ Last updated: 2023-12-04T08:00:49.000Z Last week, I spoke to mega star Youssra about the roles that shaped her iconic career, and the secrets to balancing her stardom and her private life. On this week’s bonus episode, Youssra tells me how different the film industry is today compared to when she started out in the 80s, and her thoughts on the future of the Egyptian and regional film industries. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Youssra URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/youssra/ Last updated: 2024-07-30T07:31:05.000Z My final guest of this season is the one-and-only Youssra, who tells me about her life’s journey from key decisions that led to her breakout success to her ground-breaking acting career that took on societal taboos: > In *Karakoon Fi El Sharea*, we changed the rule that we can build in the desert at the time. I changed rules through my episode like *Adiyyeit Raie Aam*, about rape. The most powerful thing in art is your influence and what you want to get out of it. If you will add to your society or you will take from your society. So I believe when we changed laws into better, I think this was something exceptional. > *–Youssra* 💡 This episode is brought to you by: [EFG Holding](https://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s6), a trailblazing financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank franchise in frontier and emerging markets. Youssra has been an icon in the Middle East since her early performances in the 1980s. With over 80 movies, countless serials and theatre performances, her career has spanned seismic shifts in culture and politics, and she has interpreted and contributed to all of them. Youssra is also a role model to younger actors and people in the industry and is often championing new talent in her films and TV work. What struck me most about her was her professionalism, her simplicity and how down-to-earth she is—there is no entourage, assistants, or arriving late. My conversation with Youssra was recorded in September 2023 at our studio here in Cairo. If you’re a member of the show, we’ll have a bonus episode next week where Youssra shares her thoughts on the future of the Egyptian and regional film industries. ### Bonus: Ramy Adeeb on volatility in the VC world, and why he didn’t invest in crypto and the metaverse URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-ramy-adeeb-on-volatility-in-the-vc-world-and-why-he-didnt-invest-in-crypto-and-the-metaverse/ Last updated: 2026-08-14T07:11:39.000Z Last week, entrepreneur and investor Ramy Adeeb told me how his appetite for risk played a pivotal role in shaping his career. On this bonus episode, Ramy shares his insights on the venture capital market, and his entrepreneurial experience with Snip-It and 1984 Ventures. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Ramy Adeeb URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/ramy-adeeb-1984-ventures/ Last updated: 2026-08-14T07:40:24.000Z I’m joined this week by Ramy Adeeb, founder and Managing Partner of 1984 Ventures, a firm that specialises in providing seed funding to start-ups. Ramy tells me how important risk taking has been in his career: > *I don't subscribe to regretting, but if there's one thing I regret is not taking enough risks in life. I have seen founders across my career who are truly, truly risk takers. And they are willing to take risks at way more frequency than I do. And I think and they're willing to sort of convince themselves of things that are not true. But then in the process, they become true.* > –Ramy Adeeb Ramy’s is a quintessential What I Did Next story, he moved to Canada for high school, went on to have early jobs at Microsoft and then as an investor in Silicon Valley, before launching his own start-up, Snip.It, which was acquired by Yahoo in 2013\. He tells me how important risk taking has been for his career, and how his life’s journey led him to the launch of his current company, 1984 ventures. ### Bonus: Amina Naguib on integrating exercise with happiness, perfecting the B-URN hoodie, and Dr. Seuss URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/amina-naguib-on-integrating-exercise-with-happiness-perfecting-the-b-urn-hoodie-and-dr-seuss/ Last updated: 2023-11-06T08:00:44.000Z Last week, fitness entrepreneur Amina Naguib told me how a pivotal moment in 2020 has radically changed her approach to life. On this bonus episode, I talk to Amina about how her brand, B-URN, has evolved to offer a holistic health approach to drive happiness. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Amina Naguib URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/amina-naguib/ Last updated: 2024-07-30T07:31:50.000Z I’m joined this week by Amina Naguib, fitness entrepreneur and founder of B-URN. Amina tells me how her life’s pivots have taught her the power of stepping back: > *The pauses are the moments where spirit comes in, where creativity comes in. And those pauses aren't accepted by a lot of people. Like I used to constantly be busy, I had to be somewhere, do something. But now I need those moments, my morning practice, my time alone or even my time with my children without their friends and without my friends around, those are sacred moments for me that that I'd never give up.* 💡 This episode is brought to you by: [EFG Holding](https://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s6), a trailblazing financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank franchise in frontier and emerging markets. Amina always wanted to explore the human body and health—she studied sports science in Washington and then physiotherapy in Amsterdam before returning to Egypt. With B-URN, she has created a community of people looking to improve their health and wellbeing. Amina and I talk about how she’s been connecting the dots of her life, particularly a major pivot in 2020 that was also a pivotal moment for me. She’s a believer in each of us having the tools to better the quality of our lives — you just need to figure out how to unlock them. If you’re a member of the show, you’ll also get a bonus episode with Amina next week where she talks about the intersection of exercise and physical therapy with happiness, and the B-URN community she continues to build. ### Bonus: Mohamed Hefzy on the writing process and supporting indie Arab filmmakers URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-mohamed-hefzy-on-the-writing-process-and-supporting-indie-arab-filmmakers/ Last updated: 2023-10-23T08:00:40.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with Mohamed Hefzy, award-winning film producer and screenwriter. On this bonus episode, he tells me how his creative process has evolved to bring other people’s screenplays to life under his company, Film Clinic. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Mohamed Hefzy URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/mohamed-hefzy/ Last updated: 2024-07-30T07:32:04.000Z I’m joined on the show this week by Mohammed Hefzy, the award-winning film producer behind mega hits such as *Clash*, *Sheikh Jackson*, *Microphone*, *Paranormal*, and *Perfect Strangers*, to name but a few of the films that make up his incredible catalogue of work. Hefzy began his career as a screen writer but made the transition to producing quite quickly, realising he wanted more control of the film-making process as a whole. This led to the formation of his company, The Film Clinic, where he not only develops his own movies but produces new and emerging talent as well. > I wanted to have more control over how films are getting made because I could see a lot of good scripts turning into bad films. And I realized that the producer has so much to do with how a film turns out. There's so many people with good ideas, there's a lot of underground talent that don't have a voice or a way into this very closed loop. > –Mohamed Hefzy 💡 This episode is brought to you by: [EFG Holding](https://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s6), a trailblazing financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank franchise in frontier and emerging markets. Hefzy and I go way back to his pre-film industry days when we were both London-based. Meeting in a formal interview setting gave me a license to ask all my nerdy questions about the film industry that you can't get away with at a party! Hefzy was president of the Cairo film festival for four years and he is a regular of the international film festival circuit, and can be spotted at Cannes, Sundance and Venice, as both a jury member as well as in competition. Hefzy was cited among 30 future leaders in film production by Screen International, and was among Variety's 500 list of the most influential people in the media industry worldwide. ### Bonus: Sir Magdy Yacoub on AI in healthcare & expanding Chain of Hope URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-sir-magdy-yacoub-on-ai-in-healthcare-expanding-chain-of-hope/ Last updated: 2023-10-09T08:59:59.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with Sir Magdy Yacoub, ground-breaking cardiologist and founder of the Chain of Hope charity. On this bonus episode, we talk about how AI could transform the healthcare sector, and how Chain of Hope is building a sustainable healthcare platform. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Sir Magdi Yacoub URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/sir-magdi-yacoub/ Last updated: 2026-08-14T07:32:53.000Z Sir Magdi Yacoub has almost single-handedly revolutionsed cardiology from his early days as a junior doctor in London in the 60’s, to retirement from his beloved NHS in 2001\. > *“Pushing frontiers is never easy, because everybody is against you … once you go out beyond what is known, you are completely in the dark. You are on your own, and anything can happen, and that is very destabilizing.”* > *–Sir Magdi Yacoub* As someone who has been on my Top 10 list of dream guests since the show began three years ago, Professor Yacoub was a joy to interview and his breadth of his knowledge is incredible. He performed the first combined heart and lung transplant in 1983, the first ‘domino’ operation in 1987, and along the way he established the largest heart and lung transplantation programme in the world at Harefield Hospital in the UK, where more than 2,500 transplant operations have been performed. And yet, as I list these groundbreaking procedures, it is easy to forget there was a time when he was considered a dangerous maverick—pushing the boundaries of what was possible on the operating table and going head-to-head with the cautious British medical establishment. Lawsuits, negative press and persistent doubts hung over him. He has of course been vindicated, and then some. Today, Professor Yacoub dedicates his time to his Chain of Hope charity. His much-anticipated biography, [*A Surgeon and a Maverick: The Life and Pioneering Work of Magdy Yacoub*](https://aucpress.com/9781649031969/a-surgeon-and-a-maverick/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-sir-magdi-yacoub) is now available at [AUC Press](https://aucpress.com/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-sir-magdi-yacoub). He has pledged a percentage of the book royalties to the Magdi Yacoub Foundation in Cairo. ### Our YouTube channel is live! URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-nadine-abdel-ghaffar-on-art-degyptes-evolution/ Last updated: 2023-09-25T09:00:10.000Z I’m excited to share that you can now find longer interview clips with our guests on our new [YouTube channel](http://youtube.com/@What-I-Did-Next/?ref=at-media-group.com)! You can subscribe now on YouTube and watch extended clips with some of our previous guests, and we’ll also have new clips with our upcoming guests this season. [Subscribe on YouTube](http://youtube.com/@What-I-Did-Next/?ref=at-media-group.com) Also out this week is our bonus episode with curator. Nadine Abdel Ghaffar, where I dig into some of the planning behind Art d’Egypte and how it has evolved since its first edition. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Nadine Abdel Ghaffar URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/nadine-abdel-ghaffar/ Last updated: 2024-07-30T07:33:14.000Z I’m joined this week by curator Nadine Abdel Ghaffar, founder of Art d’Egypte. From humble beginnings in 2017, their annual event has become a celebration of art, installations and global partnerships. Nadine is also an art curator with a passion for one of Egypt’s most celebrated artists, Mohamed Nagy, and manages their art estate along with his family. Nadine is a force of nature and someone who is very inclusive, always bringing you into her orbit. She’s extremely proud of her roots in Egypt and is doing her bit to showcase everything it has to offer. On this week’s episode, she tells me why her life’s mission is the development of all things culture. 💡 This episode is brought to you by: [EFG Holding](https://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s6), a trailblazing financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank franchise in frontier and emerging markets. If you would like to know more about the planning and operations behind Art d’Egypte, you can [subscribe to become a member](https://www.at-media-group.com/#/portal/signup/) to get our bonus episode, coming out next Monday. The 2023 edition of Art d’Egypte’s *Forever is Now* [begins on the 26th of October](https://www.artdegypte.org/?ref=at-media-group.com#/details/42?type=exhibition). ### Bonus, with Imran Amed URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-imran-amed-on-ai-metaverse-a-career-in-fashion/ Last updated: 2023-09-11T08:05:46.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with fashion entrepreneur Imran Amed in front of a live audience at Egypt Fashion Week earlier this year. On this bonus episode, Imran weighs in on the hot topic of 2023, AI and its application to fashion, and answers some of the insightful questions from the audience. _This post is for paying subscribers only._ ### Imran Amed URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/imran-amed/ Last updated: 2024-07-30T07:33:33.000Z Welcome to a new season of *What I Did Next*! I’m joined today by fashion entrepreneur Imran Amed, one of the leading voices in fashion and CEO of The Business of Fashion. *What I Did Next* was a media sponsor at the first edition of Egypt Fashion Week, where I met & interviewed Imran in front of a live audience at the Agricultural Museum in Cairo. BOF currently employs 75 people with a presence in London, New York, Paris and Shanghai. It also boasts a community of 800,000 email subscribers and 100,000 paying members across 120 countries. 💡 This episode is brought to you by: [EFG Holding](https://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s6), a trailblazing financial institution with a universal bank in Egypt and the leading investment bank franchise in frontier and emerging markets. If you’re a [member of the show](https://www.at-media-group.com/#/portal/signup), you’ll get a bonus episode next week with the insightful questions from the Egypt Fashion Week’s live audience. ### A new season begins September 4 URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/season-6-begins-september-4/ Last updated: 2024-08-08T12:29:46.000Z I’m excited to be bringing you a new season of *What I Did Next* starting next week, with new episodes every second Monday. I’ve had incredible guests over the past five seasons, leaders in their fields from a wide range of industries such as business, art, design, fashion, medicine, and entertainment. These conversations keep reminding me that each person’s journey is unique to them, and I’m always floored by how honest and authentic my guests are. I can’t wait to share some amazing conversations with you again. ### Wrapping-up Season 5 URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/wrapping-up-season-5/ Last updated: 2026-09-15T13:04:05.000Z Thank you for joining me on an incredible season 5 of What I Did Next, and for your feedback and comments. This week, I’m joined by our producer Chirag Desai to talk about my own life’s pivots, a few highlights from our season and what’s in my cultural inbox. Thanks to our partners [EFG Hermes](https://efghermesone.com/?utm%5Fsource=what-i-did-next&utm%5Fmedium=podcast&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s5) for their support of this season, and to Egypt Fashion Week for a lovely collaboration. We’ll be back with new episodes in early September. Until then, you can catch up on our previous episodes, and follow us on Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn for updates. ### Bonus, with Chef Hussein Hadid URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-chef-hussein-hadid/ Last updated: 2026-09-15T13:04:34.000Z We're continuing my conversation with Chef Hussein Hadid. On this members-only bonus episode Chef Hussein tells me why he chose to put down roots in Lebanon and how that changed his perceptions about dining. I also ask him a bit more about his aunt, the incredible, award-winning internationally renowned architect, Zaha Hadid. ### Chef Hussein Hadid URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/chef-hussein-hadid-beirut-kitchen-table-experience/ Last updated: 2026-09-15T12:57:06.000Z I’m joined on the show this week by the super talented Lebanese/Iraqi chef, Hussein Hadid. If you’ve been lucky enough to attend his unique kitchen table experience in Beirut, you'll know that he conjures up magic not just for your taste buds, but also by giving a lot of thought to the atmosphere and decor. Chef Hussein started out in finance, quickly discarding that career in favour of a chef's jacket and hat. Our conversation took many twists and turns, with anecdotes from his time working for a top New York restaurant to his more difficult experiences in Lebanon over the last few years. Chef Hussein also told me how his business has weathered these storms, and what's to come. ### Bonus, with Salma El-Wardany URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/a-little-more-with-salma-el-wardany/ Last updated: 2026-09-15T13:35:28.000Z We're continuing our conversation with poet, author, and radio host Salma El-Wardany. On this bonus episode, Salma tells me about the impact of her work including her book, *These Impossible Things*, and how her mother continues to play a key role in her life. See you then, Malak ### Salma El-Wardany URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/salma-el-wardany-author-radio-speaker/ Last updated: 2026-09-15T12:17:58.000Z I’m joined this week by poet, author and radio host, Salma El-Wardany. Salma is the author of *These Impossible Things*, a best-selling novel that that breaks down barriers by looking at how a group of muslim girlfriends navigate love, friendship & sex. She also currently hosts *The Breakfast Show* on BBC Radio London, which reaches over half a million listeners daily. SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) Salma is of Irish and Egyptian descent, combined with influences from the Pakistani community of Northern England and her current home in multi-cultural London. Questions of identity are at the core of who Salma is, and this is at the heart of much of her writing, public speaking and poetry. Salma has given voice to what many modern young women from Jakarta to Jeddah talk about behind closed doors. I find Salma's story fascinating, uplifting and hopeful. ### Bonus, with Fares Akkad URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-fares-akkad/ Last updated: 2026-09-15T13:31:21.000Z We’re continuing my conversation with Fares Akkad, Regional Director at Meta. On this bonus episode, Fares and I dig further into some learnings from his time as an entrepreneur, and more about the Metaverse. ### Fares Akkad URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/fares-akkad-managing-director-meta/ Last updated: 2026-09-15T12:02:17.000Z I'm joined on the show this week by Fares Akkad. Fares is currently Regional Director for Meta and has a long track record with the company formerly known as Facebook. Over the course of his career, Fares has had stints at KPMG, Booz Allen and media giant MBC, as well as going it alone as an entrepreneur. SPONSORED by [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) As a son of a Syrian diplomat, Fares grew up in South America and Europe, before moving to the US for university. We talk about how being exposed to so many different cultures has solidified his sense of self. We also dig into the future of technology, the metaverse, and where Meta sees itself in that equation. ### Bonus, with Mounaz & Aya Abdel Raouf URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-mounaz-aya-abdel-roauf/ Last updated: 2026-09-15T11:55:53.000Z We're continuing my conversation with the sisters behind luxury fashion brand Okhtein, Mounaz & Aya Abdel Raouf. On this bonus episode for our members, Mounaz and Aya, tell me about their creative process, and how the pandemic impacted their business and the fashion industry. ### Mounaz & Aya Abdel Raouf URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/mounaz-aya-abdel-raouf-okhtein/ Last updated: 2026-09-15T11:54:46.000Z I’m joined on this new episode by Mounaz and Aya Abdel Raouf, better known as the sisters behind the global luxury brand, Okhtein. Mounaz and Aya have always had a love for fashion and accessories, and day-dreamed about working in the industry from when they were children. SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/09/Image-EFW-Sq-1.png) [Egypt Fashion Week](https://egfashionweek.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) May 12–15, 2023: The past, present & future In 2014, they turned their fantasy into a reality, launching Okhtein. Since then, they’ve had celebrities like Beyoncé, Emma Watson, Cardi B and Gigi Hadid photographed with their accessories. Today, Okhtein continues to expand its retail footprint, widening their distribution network to new markets, and exploring new product ranges, including a collaboration with Balmain which was unveiled during Paris Fashion Week in October last year. ### FastCompanyME: The Middle East wants to tell interesting stories. And podcasts seem to be the perfect platform URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/blog/fastcompanyme-the-middle-east-wants-to-tell-interesting-stories-and-podcasts-seem-to-be-the-perfect-platform/ Last updated: 2024-02-27T22:02:33.000Z Fast Company ME spoke to Malak Fouad on podcast developments in the region: > Sharing her observations as host of *What I Did Next*, named one of Apple Podcasts’ Best Shows of 2021 and 2022, Fouad reports a 1.5x audience growth year-on-year, most of which is driven by Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and the UAE. “We also have a growing audience now in Oman and Kuwait.” [Read the full article](https://fastcompanyme.com/impact/the-middle-east-wants-to-tell-interesting-stories-and-podcasts-seem-to-be-the-perfect-platform?utm%5Fsource=amaeya.media&utm%5Fmedium=web) → ### Bonus, with Ramy Youssef URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-ramy-youssef/ Last updated: 2026-09-14T13:32:50.000Z Last week, I sat down with comedian and actor, Ramy Youssef. On this bonus episode for our members, we talk a bit more about his inspiration, cancel culture and his upcoming work. ### Ramy Youssef URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/actor-comedian-ramy-youssef/ Last updated: 2026-09-15T11:54:56.000Z I'm joined on this episode by comedian, actor and writer, Ramy Youssef. Ramy started out as a stand-up comedian, and is the star of the eponymous hit show, *Ramy*, which has won Golden Globes and Peabodies, as well as Emmy nominations. He’s also the co-creator of *Mo* with Mo Amer, and can be seen later this year in *Poor Things* with Emma Stone, William Dafoe and Mark Ruffalo among other big wigs of the industry. SPONSORED by [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I binged watched all 3 seasons of *Ramy* and am so happy we are finally seeing a show that potrays the Arab immigrant experience as more than a 2D cliché. The show is part comedy, part drama and part spiritual quest, raising questions and making you keel over laughing at the same time. As writer, actor, director and producer of the show, Ramy brings nuance and subtlety to what are, on the surface, extremely difficult issues to broach on US TV and he does so with the one tool that always breaks down prejudices—humour. ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/09/Image-EFW-Sq-1.png) [Egypt Fashion Week](https://egfashionweek.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) May 12–15, 2023: The past, present & future We talk about growing up in New Jersey, the show, and whether his life has changed before and after the show's global success. ### Egypt Fashion Week 2023, with Paul Antaki & Susan Sabet URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/egypt-fashion-week-2023-with-paul-antaki-susan-sabet/ Last updated: 2026-09-14T07:45:35.000Z This season we've partnered with the Egypt Fashion & Design Council, which is launching the first edition of Egypt Fashion Week from May 12 to May 15\. I’m joined on this bonus episode by two of the Council’s co-founders, Paul Antaki & Susan Sabet. We talk about the mission behind the EFDC and what they’re hoping to achieve with the first Egypt Fashion Week. You can find out more on their [website](https://the-efdc.com/egypt-fashion-week/?ref=at-media-group.com), and also follow Egypt Fashion Week on [Instagram](https://instagram.com/egyptfashionweek2023?ref=at-media-group.com) and on [TikTok](https://www.tiktok.com/@egytfashionweek?%5Ft=8bQbY4IVlmE&%5Fr=1&ref=at-media-group.com). ### Bonus, with Omniya Abdel Barr URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-omniya-abdel-barr/ Last updated: 2026-09-14T07:39:24.000Z On this bonus episode exclusively for members, we've got a few more details about her projects, and what’s in Omniya’s cultural inbox. ### Omniya Abdel Barr URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/omniya-abdel-barr-islamic-art-biennale/ Last updated: 2026-09-14T07:36:48.000Z I'm joined by architect and a specialist in cultural heritage conservation, Omniya Abdel Barr. Omniya has worked on some landmark projects in the region, and now divides her time between the Egyptian Heritage Rescue Foundation (EHRF) in Cairo and the Victoria and Albert Museum (V&A) in London. Omniya was also one of four co-curators of the Islamic Art Biennale in Jeddah. Omniya talks about the effort that goes into maintaining our historical sites, including raising funds from across the region’s benefactors and institutions. My conversation with Omniya is a reminder that cultural heritage is as important to a nation’s foundation and economy as tangible industries like manufacturing or oil. As always, we'll have a bonus episode with a few more details about her projects and what's in her cultural inbox. That'll be out next week. ### Bonus, with Ali Shihabi URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-ali-shihabi/ Last updated: 2026-09-14T07:30:09.000Z On this bonus episode, we have a bit more about Ali Shihabi's involvement with Arif Naqvi of Abraaj Group fame, his views on building the region's intellectual class, and what's in his cultural inbox. ### Ali Shihabi URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/ali-shihabi-rasmala-the-saudi-kingdom/ Last updated: 2026-09-14T07:25:04.000Z Ali Shihabi is a businessman, investor, scholar, writer, and pundit. A few years ago, Ali left the management of his company, Rasmala Investment Bank, to focus on his passion for writing and commentary. He has published two books — *Arabian War Games* and *The Saudi Kingdom* — and also writes for outlets like The New York Times, The Atlantic and Foreign Policy. We dig into his life's pivots, from being at the center of one of the biggest reshuffles in the Saudi banking sector, to becoming an entrepreneur, and how he views the region against the world at large. We'll have a bonus episode with Ali for our members out next week. ### Bonus: A little more from Hala Gorani URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-hala-gorani/ Last updated: 2026-09-11T10:13:56.000Z Last week, I spoke to broadcaster and journalist, Hala Gorani, about her life's pivots and her upcoming book. In addition to our main episode, we also have a members-only bonus episode with each guest where we dig deeper into their careers and the future of their industries. On this bonus episode with Hala Gorani, she shares the differences she sees between being an anchor and a reporter, the future of journalism and what's in her cultural inbox. ### Hala Gorani URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/hala-gorani-cnn-journalist-author/ Last updated: 2026-09-11T10:10:36.000Z SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/09/EFG-One-Logo.png)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) We're kicking off a new season of *What I Did Next* with powerhouse broadcaster and journalist, [Hala Gorani](https://at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/hala-gorani?ref=at-media-group.com). Over a career spanning 25 years, Hala has covered natural disasters, wars, elections and interviewed key global leaders. Last year, Hala took a sabbatical from CNN and is currently working on her first book—a memoir that explores the subject of identity—which will be out in Spring 2024. We dig into her life’s pivotal moments, growing up in the US and France, why she chose to become a journalist, and how she’s working to better understand her multicultural identity in a increasingly complex world. ### Season 5 begins March 6 URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/season-5-begins-march-6/ Last updated: 2024-08-08T12:29:40.000Z What I Did Next is back with a new season beginning March 6. ![audio-thumbnail](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/media/2023/02/S5-Trailer-v1_thumb.jpeg?v=1677229414365) Season 5 Trailer 0:00 /82.83428571428571 1× On the show, we delve into people’s life journeys from the point of view of twists and turns, shifts and pivots. We’ve all had these moments in our lives that make us stop in our tracks, and course correct. Often we realize the importance of these moments only with hindsight, and this is what forms the underlying current of What I Did Next. We’ll also have a bonus episode with each guest exclusively for our members. You can subscribe on [our website](https://www.at-media-group.com/#/portal/signup) with a free trial, as well as on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-i-did-next/id1549640242?itsct=podcast%5Fbox&itscg=30200&ls=1&at=1001l36oh&ct=widn-s5&ref=at-media-group.com). ### Season 4 Wrap-up URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/season-4-wrap-up/ Last updated: 2026-09-11T06:53:14.000Z SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I hope you’ve enjoyed listening to Season 4 of What I Did Next! It’s been an incredible season and we want to thank each of you for listening in and sending in your feedback and reviews. As always, we end the season with our wrap-up episode where I’m joined by our producer Chirag Desai to chat about some highlights from the season, and a special interview with Magued Sherif, Managing Director at our season partner, SODIC. ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/09/Sodic---Square-2.png) [SODIC](https://www.sodic.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), celebrating 25 of creating timeless spaces. We’ll be back with new episodes in early March. Until then, follow us on Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn for updates, video clips of our guests and more. ### Bonus, with Neveen El Tahri URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-neveen-el-tahri/ Last updated: 2026-09-11T06:44:31.000Z We’re continuing our conversation Neveen El Tahri. On this bonus episode, Neveen shares more about her professional journey, especially how she started out in banking at a time when it was very much a man’s world. ### Neveen El-Tahri URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/neveen-el-tahri-data-shield/ Last updated: 2026-09-11T06:37:44.000Z SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) On our final episode of the season, I’m joined by a powerhouse business woman and role model, Neveen El-Tahri. Neveen is the first woman to sit on the board of both the Egyptian Stock Exchange and the Egyptian Financial Supervisory Authority. More recently, she’s been associated with the world of entrepreneurship. As Chairperson of Delta Shield, Neveen is enhancing growth and employment with a focus on youth, entrepreneurship & SME activities. ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/09/Sodic---Square-2.png) [SODIC](https://www.sodic.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), celebrating 25 of creating timeless spaces. Our conversation though did not just focus on her career; we chatted about marriage, religion and health. ### What I Did Next is one of Apple Podcasts Best of 2022 URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/blog/what-i-did-next-is-one-of-apple-podcasts-best-of-2022/ Last updated: 2023-04-26T06:53:08.000Z I'm excited to share that What I Did Next was included as one of the Apple Podcasts’ Best of 2022 in the ‘Shows that made us think’ category. Once again, a thank you to each one of you who have subscribed, downloaded and listened to the show. ### Bonus, with Tarek Nour URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-tarek-nour/ Last updated: 2026-09-11T06:30:02.000Z We’re continuing our conversation ad-man Tarek Nour. On this bonus episode, we look at some of the recurring themes through his life—how he’s very much a product of time and place, his thoughts about the future of technology & AI, and the advice he has for creatives. ### Tarek Nour URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/tarek-nour-advertising/ Last updated: 2026-09-11T06:26:59.000Z SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I’m joined today by a living legend, Tarek Nour, who single-handedly revolutionised the advertising world in Egypt and the Middle East at large. He made household names out of major brands with catchy jingles and his signature voice-overs. Today Tarek is semi-retired, active in some aspects of his business but also able to take a bird’s eye view of the industry, his life and Egypt. ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/09/Sodic---Square-2.png) [SODIC](https://www.sodic.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), celebrating 25 of creating timeless spaces. We also have more from Tarek in a bonus episode coming out next week. ### Bonus, with Caroline Louca URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-caroline-louca/ Last updated: 2026-09-11T06:13:47.000Z We’re continuing our conversation with Caroline Louca, an art consultant and ex-Managing Director of Christie’s in the Middle East. On this bonus episode, we’re taking a closer look at the Middle East art scene and Caroline gives us her take on digital art and NFTs. ### Startup Scene interviews What I Did Next creators Malak Fouad & Chirag Desai URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/blog/startup-scene-interviews-what-i-did-next-creators-malak-fouad-chirag-desai/ Last updated: 2023-04-26T06:49:51.000Z Startup Scene interviewed me about [What I Did Next](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/) and the podcast industry: > What in your opinion makes a great podcast interview? > > MF: It's a two-ingredient recipe: It's one part a great interviewee who knows how to express themselves, is authentic and listens to the question, and one part an empathetic and sensitive host who really listens, knows when to jump in and when to shut up. In my opinion great interviewers include Barbara Walters, Christiane Amanpour, Jon Stewart and Ali G. [Read the full interview here](https://thestartupscene.me/EntrepreneurLife/Interview-with-What-I-Did-Next-Creators-Malak-Fouad-Chirag-Desai?utm%5Fsource=amaeya.media&utm%5Fmedium=web) → ### Caroline Louca URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/caroline-louca-christies/ Last updated: 2026-09-11T06:10:39.000Z SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) I’m joined on the show today by Caroline Louca. Carol is an art consultant and started out as a corporate lawyer in Paris and Cairo. In 2008, she moved to the UAE and joined the Abu Dhabi Tourism and Culture Authority. In that role, she was intricately involved with the establishment of the Louvre, the Guggenheim and the Zayed national museums. She then joined the Middle East team at Christie's in Dubai. Carol and I are old friends and we had a great chat about her career and the art world, especially the Middle East art scene. ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/09/Sodic---Square-2.png) [SODIC](https://www.sodic.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), celebrating 25 of creating timeless spaces. We also have more from Carol in a bonus episode coming out next week. ### Bonus, with Ayman Mohyeldin URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-ayman-mohyeldin/ Last updated: 2026-09-11T05:59:27.000Z We’re continuing our conversation with Ayman Mohyeldin, host of Ayman on MSNBC on weekend evenings. In today's bonus episode we discuss Ayman's career in more detail but we also get his take on the divisive cultural winds sweeping the United States. ### Ayman Mohyeldin URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/ayman-mohyeldin-msnbc/ Last updated: 2026-09-11T05:52:08.000Z SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/09/Sodic---Square-2.png) [SODIC](https://www.sodic.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), celebrating 25 of creating timeless spaces. My guest today is Ayman Mohyeldin, the Arab-American TV anchor on the NBC and MSNBC networks in the US. Ayman spent his formative years in the United States and gravitated towards journalism after he graduated. Over the years, he’s worked as a field producer and reported in the Middle East with CNN and Al Jazeera in addition to the NBC network of channels. A few years ago, he exchanged his flak jacket for a suit & tie to take on prestigious and high-profile anchor positions in New York with NBC & MSNBC. He is currently the host of Ayman on weekend evenings. We met over the summer in Almaza on the North Coast of Egypt and had a wide-ranging discussion about his childhood and education, his career choices and his opinion on the current political climate in the US. We also have more from Ayman in a bonus episode coming out next week. ### Bonus, with Dr. Nadine Hachach-Haram URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-dr-nadine-hachach-haram/ Last updated: 2026-09-10T10:37:46.000Z We’re continuing our conversation with Dr. Nadine Hachach-Haram, founder of Proximie. I talk to her about how Proximie operates around the world, and she also shares an example of how they were able to help someone during the pandemic via the NHS. Thank you for being a subscriber of the show, and stay turned for more bonus content during the season. ### Dr. Nadine Hachach-Haram URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/dr-nadine-hachach-haram-proximie/ Last updated: 2026-09-10T10:32:02.000Z SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) Dr. Nadine Hachach-Haram joins me in the hot seat today to discuss her amazing, life-changing work. Dr. Nadine is a reconstructive surgeon working with the National Health Service in the UK. She's is also the founder of Proximie, a start-up revolutionising how surgery is conducted, with a technology platform that enables operating rooms across remote locations to virtually interact and conduct surgeries in real time. Dr. Nadine saw the horrors war inflicts on people and communities during her formative years living in Lebanon after the civil war, and how difficult it is for individuals to re-build their lives if proper health care is not available. Her story is one of perseverance, dedication and incremental change. ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/09/Sodic---Square-2.png) [SODIC](https://www.sodic.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), celebrating 25 of creating timeless spaces. We also have more from Dr. Nadine in a bonus episode coming out next week. ### Bonus: Mo Gawdat on ‘Scary Smart’ URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-mo-gawdat-scary-smart/ Last updated: 2026-09-10T10:24:06.000Z We’re continuing our conversation with Mo Gawdat, former Chief Business Officer of Google X, host of the podcast Slo Mo, author and founder of the One Billion Happy movement. I spoke to Mo about his second book, Scary Smart, about the future of humanity in the context of an AI-driven future. Thank you for being a subscriber of the show, and stay tuned for more bonus content throughout the season. ### Mo Gawdat URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/mo-gawdat-billion-happy-movement/ Last updated: 2026-09-10T10:19:36.000Z My guest on this episode is a giant in every field he’s ventured into, Mo Gawdat. Mo was Chief Business Officer at Google X, and is now the popular author of *Solve for Happy*, *Scary Smart*, and more recently, *That Little Voice in Your Head*, with more books to come. He is also behind the *One Billion Happy* movement which is inspired by his late son, Aly, who died tragically in 2014. SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/09/Sodic---Square-2.png) [SODIC](https://www.sodic.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), celebrating 25 of creating timeless spaces. Mo today is more monk than mogul. He has gone from corporate man to living out of a carry-on bag, lugging his podcast equipment around the world, and having conversations with people who will shine a light on a hidden corner of the human experience. ### Bonus, with Amy Mowafi URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-amy-mowafi/ Last updated: 2026-09-10T10:07:56.000Z We’re continuing our conversation with Amy Mowafi, co-founder of the MO4 network. We dig into MO4’s plans to lead the Web3 space in the region, and how she feels about her kids being on social media. We’ll have more content like this through-out the season with our guests. ### Amy Mowafi URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/amy-mowafi-mo4-network/ Last updated: 2026-09-10T08:36:31.000Z SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/09/Sodic---Square-2.png) [SODIC](https://www.sodic.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), celebrating 25 of creating timeless spaces. My guest on this episode is Amy Mowafi, who makes up one-fourth of the MO4 network of companies. Amy and her team are the digital publishers of CairoScene, ElFasla, StartUpScene, NFTYScene, NFTY Arabia, SceneNoise, SceneTraveller, SceneEats, CairoZoom & the SceneNOW App. They also house a digital creative agency and are leading the way in the Web3 universe as well. Amy brings passion, authenticity and a sense that anything-is-possible to everything she does. She is a fierce proponent of what our generation used to call Girl Power, and is awed by how Gen Z women have given that voice full-throttle. We also have more from Amy in a bonus episode coming out next week. ### Bonus, with Fadi Ghandour URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-fadi-ghandour/ Last updated: 2026-09-10T08:33:29.000Z We’re continuing our conversation with Fadi Ghandour, the co-founder of Aramex, Wamda Capital and the NGO Ruwwad. On this bonus episode exclusively for members, Fadi shares how proud he is of Aramex completing 30-years, and his identity continues to be entwined with the company. ### Fadi Ghandour URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/fadi-ghandour-aramex-wamda-ruwwad/ Last updated: 2026-09-10T08:02:45.000Z SPONSORED by EFG HERMES ONE [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) Your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) We’re kicking off this season with Fadi Ghandour, an icon of the Middle East’s business and entrepreneurial landscape. After co-founding Aramex, Fadi became the poster-boy for Arab entrepreneurship success. Aramex went on to become the first Arab company to list on NASDAQ, not a small achievement by any means. We’re focusing our conversation on the pivot that followed, when Fadi decided to leave Aramex and everything he’s been doing since. ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/09/Sodic---Square-2.png) [SODIC](https://www.sodic.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), celebrating 25 of creating timeless spaces. We also have more from Fadi in a bonus episode exclusively for our members coming out next week. ### Season 4 launches September 5 URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/season-4-launches-september-5/ Last updated: 2024-08-08T12:12:13.000Z What I Did Next is back with a new season, beginning September 5th. If you’ve heard the show before, you’ll know that the guests on our show are leaders in their fields from across the Middle East. This season we have entrepreneurs, doctors, designers, journalists, innovators and more! You’ll hear a new guest join me in the hot seat every other Monday until the middle of December. We’re also [launching a subscription via Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-i-did-next/id1549640242?itsct=podcast%5Fbox&itscg=30200&ls=1&at=1001l36oh&ct=widn-s4&ref=at-media-group.com) this season. If you like the show as it is, nothing will change, but if you want little bit extra, you'll get to hear episodes a few days earlier, and be able to unlock bonus content. You can subscribe in Apple Podcasts now to get started with a free trial. While you wait, check out our library of episodes in your podcast player and don’t forget to save the date of 5th of September for the kick off of Season 4! ### Season 3 Wrap-up URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/season-3-wrap-up/ Last updated: 2026-09-04T06:36:10.000Z SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/EFG-Hermes-Square-Top-1.png) [EFG Hermes Holding](http://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com), a universal bank in Egypt with the leading investment bank franchise in frontier emerging markets (FEM) I hope you’ve enjoyed listening to Season 3 of What I Did Next! We’ve had an incredible line-up of guests, and want to thank each of you for listening in and sending in your feedback and reviews. Listen in to our wrap-up episode where I sit down with our producer Chirag Desai to talk about the highlights of the season, some learnings and a look ahead to Season 4\. ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. We’ll be back soon — until then, you can follow us on [Instagram](https://instagram.com/what.i.did.next?ref=at-media-group.com), [Twitter](https://twitter.com/whatididnextpod?ref=at-media-group.com) and on [Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/whatididnext.podcast) for updates on the show. ### Youssef El Deeb URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/youssef-el-deeb-fatafeat/ Last updated: 2026-09-04T06:33:31.000Z SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/EFG-Hermes-Square-Top-1.png) [EFG Hermes Holding](http://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com), a universal bank in Egypt with the leading investment bank franchise in frontier emerging markets (FEM) I’m delighted to have Youssef El Deeb as my guest today. Youssef is a film-maker, photographer, writer, ad-man, broadcaster, foodie and even a sailor. A son of Alexandria, Youssef’s life has seen him move from Egypt to Canada, to Kuwait, and finally to Dubai, where he currently resides. In 2006, Youssef launched the food channel, *Fatafeat*, a venture he calls ‘his baby’. Youssef created the Fatafeat catchphrase, El Haya Helwa. The origin of this phrase is very close to his heart but can also be seen as the guiding words of his life. Youssef unpacks the peaks and troughs of his life in our conversation, and we discuss the pivots that have shaped his journey. ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. ### Nadine Kanso URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/nadine-kanso-bil-arabi/ Last updated: 2026-09-04T06:31:40.000Z SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. I’m joined on this episode by Nadine Kanso, the ultra-chic and super-creative jewellery designer, photographer, purveyor of beautiful things and all ‘round influencer. Nadine has taken the concept of what it means to be an Arab and translated it using her camera lens, calligraphy or by moulding gold into bold, strong letters to form her signature brand, Bilarabi. Over the years, she has become a leader and style icon in the region. Nadine shares her key pivot points and how there was no linear path that got her to where she is today. ### Dr. Ahmed Heikal URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/ahmed-heikal/ Last updated: 2026-09-04T06:22:58.000Z SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. As chairman and CEO of Qalaa Holdings, Ahmed is well known to many in the business community across the Middle East. Prior to founding Qalaa Holdings, Ahmed was an integral part of the rise and dominance of EFG-Hermes bank. To some, Ahmed is a polarizing figure. We talk candidly about the trajectory of his career, his appetite for risk and how he views the current phase of his career. ### Clarissa Ward URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/clarissa-ward-cnn/ Last updated: 2026-09-04T06:18:29.000Z SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/EFG-Hermes-Square-Top-1.png) [EFG Hermes Holding](http://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com), a universal bank in Egypt with the leading investment bank franchise in frontier emerging markets (FEM) She’s been reporting for over 15 years from various countries in the region, including Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. More recently, she covered the US withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2020, and also covered the Ukraine war. Clarissa is also the author of [*On All Fronts: The Education of a Journalist*](https://www.amazon.com/All-Fronts-Education-Journalist/dp/0525561471?ref=at-media-group.com), one of my favourite books of 2020\. She talks about her unconventional childhood and how 9/11 was a clear pivot point in helping her decide to tell stories for a willing. ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. ### Sultan Sooud Al-Qassemi URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/sultan-sooud-al-qassemi/ Last updated: 2026-09-01T12:32:56.000Z SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/EFG-Hermes-Square-Top-1.png) [EFG Hermes Holding](http://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com), a universal bank in Egypt with the leading investment bank franchise in frontier emerging markets (FEM) I’m delighted to welcome [Sultan Sooud Al-Qassemi](https://sultanalqassemi.com/?utm%5Fsource=at-media&utm%5Fmedium=website&utm%5Fcampaign=what-i-did-next) to the show. Sultan is someone I have long-admired from afar; a man who has worn many hats over the decades—businessman, art collector, activist, academic. Sultan’s story starts out as a proud son of Sharjah in the UAE before he came to the attention of a wide audience around the world for his activism during the 2011 revolutions in the Arab World. His heritage, nationality and deep sense of what it means to be Arab today is the thread that links all his work and interests. ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. ### Hend Sabri URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/hend-sabri/ Last updated: 2026-09-01T07:34:22.000Z ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. We have the gorgeous Hend Sabri on the show! Hend is the queen of our cinematic hearts, and a leading light of both the silver and the small screens. Although a lawyer by training, Hend went on to star in ground-breaking roles such as Asmaa, where she portrays an HIV-positive woman in rural Egypt, and Ola in Ayaz-Atgawez, whom she recently brought back Finding Ola, now available on Netflix. Hend has often taken on difficult and taboo subjects that are whispered about but not spoken about out loud. And underneath the actress, Hend is a woman of fierce intellect, who cares deeply for the world she will be passing on to her daughters. ### Bonus, with Kito de Boer URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-kito-de-boer/ Last updated: 2026-09-01T07:27:28.000Z ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. I’m continuing my conversation with Kito de Boer for this special bonus episode about his role with the Quartet, a group tasked with mediating between Israel and the Palestinians. As Head of Mission of the Quartet, Kito brought his considerable business and negotiating acumen to the table to try and address this problem essentially from an economic perspective. You can listen to my full conversation with Kito [here](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/kito-de-boer/). ### Kito de Boer URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/kito-de-boer/ Last updated: 2026-09-01T07:17:25.000Z SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. My guest on this episode is Kito de Boer. Kito spent nearly 30 years at McKinsey, and his exposure to the world of management consultancy as well as international political institutions has given him unique insights into what makes the world go around. Kito also reveals himself to be a man of many hobbies and facets, acknowledging the grounding importance of family and the essential need for a satisfying ‘inner life’. He and his wife are avid collectors of Indian art. His work in helping set government strategies across various sectors in the Middle East placed him in a unique position to succeed Tony Blair as Head of Mission of the Quartet from 2015 to 2017\. This entity was tasked with helping mediate between Israel and Palestinians, particularly tackling issues from an economic perspective. We talk more about the Quartet on our [bonus episode](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/bonus-with-kito-de-boer/). ### Fatma Said URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/fatma-said/ Last updated: 2026-09-01T06:14:36.000Z SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/EFG-Hermes-Square-Top-1.png) [EFG Hermes Holding](http://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com), a universal bank in Egypt with the leading investment bank franchise in frontier emerging markets (FEM). We’re starting season 3 with the Soprano sensation Fatma Said. Fatma is a soprano taking the world of opera by storm. Since starting out at the iconic La Scala theatre in Milan, she tours the world as a soprano bringing beloved roles to life in productions spanning the traditional languages of opera; Italian, German, French and Russian. In October 2020 Fatma released her debut album with Warner Classics called [El Nour](https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/el-nour/?utm%5Fsource=at-media&utm%5Fmedium=website&utm%5Fcampaign=widn-s3-fatma-said), where she crosses cultures from Spain, Egypt and France and encompasses classic opera with folks songs as well. Listen to Fatma share the moments that changed her life around and about her exciting life on the stage. Her passion is heart-warming and contagious! You can find her album, El Nour on various streaming platforms [here](https://w.lnk.to/elnour?ref=at-media-group.com). ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. ### Season 2 Wrap-up URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/season-2-wrap-up/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T06:46:02.000Z SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/EFG-Hermes-Square-Top-1.png) [EFG Hermes Holding](http://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com), a universal bank in Egypt with the leading investment bank franchise in frontier emerging markets (FEM) We hope you’ve enjoyed listening to Season 2 of What I Did Next! We’ve had a great line-up of guests, great feedback and some Apple Podcasts love by being included in their **Best of 2021** selection. What more can a podcast ask for?! Tune in to our wrap-up episode where we discuss the highlights of the last 8 episodes and look ahead to Season 3\. Listen to the show to hear about an exciting new announcement as well! Happy holidays everyone 😄 ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. ### What I Did Next on Apple Podcasts Best of 2021 URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/blog/what-i-did-next-on-apple-podcasts-best-of-2021/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T06:43:07.000Z I'm thrilled to announce that What I Did Next is one of the Apple Podcasts Best Shows of 2021\. A big thanks to all of you, the listeners, who have subscribed, downloaded and listened to the show. ### Prince Abbas Hilmi URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/prince-abbas-hilmi-mohamed-ali-ottoman/ Last updated: 2026-09-01T06:18:14.000Z I’m delighted to welcome Prince Abbas Hilmi onto the last episode of Season 2\. Prince Abbas Hilmi is a descendent of two Middle Eastern royal houses. SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/EFG-Hermes-Square-Top-1.png) [EFG Hermes](http://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com), the leading financial services corporation in frontier emerging markets. Through his father, Prince Mohamed Abdel Moneim, he is a descendent of Mohamed Ali of Egypt, while his mother, Neslishah Sultan, was the granddaughter of Mehmed VI, the last Ottoman Sultan. A quiet and modest man, Prince Abbas Hilmi spoke to me about his unique life journey, weaving stories of royalty and history with the more contemporary realities of the region’s finance and business industries. ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. ### Kim Ghattas URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/kim-ghattas-journalist/ Last updated: 2026-09-01T06:18:05.000Z Meet Kim Ghattas, journalist, writer and lecturer. Kim’s career has been extensive and multi-layered. Kim, who is half Lebanese and half Dutch, shot to prominence as a BBC reporter, first covering Lebanon and then reporting on U.S. foreign policy from the United States. SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/EFG-Hermes-Square-Top-1.png) [EFG Hermes](http://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com), the leading financial services corporation in frontier emerging markets. Lately, she has gained recognition as an author of bestselling books. First came *The Secretary* and more recently, *Black Wave,* a must-read for all those interested and concerned about Middle East politics. Listen to my conversation with her where she unpacks what inspires her and more profoundly talks about the shadow that growing up in the Lebanese civil war still casts across her life and outlook. You can find the episode in [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-i-did-next/id1549640242?ref=at-media-group.com), [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/1JJ7F35NJ7ckEkp7USHmLO?ref=at-media-group.com) and [Podbean](https://www.podbean.com/podcast-detail/pbbyu-207ad5/What-I-Did-Next-Podcast?ref=at-media-group.com). ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. ### Bobby Chinn URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/chef-bobby-chinn/ Last updated: 2026-09-01T06:17:55.000Z Bobby Chinn—celebrity chef, raconteur, comic, mimic and globetrotter—is my guest on the show this week. Perhaps best known in the Middle East as one of the judges on MBC’s highly rated show, Top Chef, Bobby brings a unique perspective on what a life journey should look like. SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/EFG-Hermes-Square-Top-1.png) [EFG Hermes](http://efghermes.com/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com), the leading financial services corporation in frontier emerging markets. Our conversation covers everything from his peripatetic childhood to his steep learning curve trying to find the path that was best for him. Taking us on his journey we are entertained and awestruck by his innate positivity and optimism. The most striking thing for me was his deep love of family and country that he kept reverting back to time and again during our chat. ALSO SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. ### Dr. Lama Al-Sulaiman URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/dr-lama-al-sulaiman-saudi-arabia/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T06:13:22.000Z Meet Dr. Lama Al-Sulaiman: wife, mother, business-woman and most notably, an unexpected pioneer of women’s rights in Saudi Arabia. Listen to her story, where she comes across as thoughtful and compassionate. SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. She opens up about her challenges and talks passionately about helping the underdog and less fortunate as well as her fight to get women treated equally in the boardroom. ### Hassan Al Damluji URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/hassan-al-damluji-gates-foundation/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T06:05:20.000Z Today Hassan Al Damluji, the Deputy Director of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is our guest on the show. SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. We trace his life journey, from a young adult discovering his Iraqi roots, to his current role in public health. We talk about his work in the region and his developing a more global world view. Discover how chance trips and encounters have contributed in shaping Hassan’s path. ### Nada Debs URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/nada-debs-handmade-and-heartmade/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T05:53:30.000Z Today I welcome Nada Debs to the show. Nada is a Lebanese designer who has re-invented the Levantine tradition of wood-work making. She has taken traditional techniques and given them a modern, contemporary twist. Nada works across a wide range of design including furniture, accessories, crafts, fashion and interiors. SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. Nada’s life—from her childhood in Japan to graduate school in the US—have all laid the foundations for her professional and personal journey. The ‘less is more’ aesthetic that Nada brings to all she does has gained her wide recognition and this has translated into very interesting and dynamic collaborations with such diverse brands as Louis Vuitton, Converse and IKEA. ### Max Rodenbeck URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/max-rodenbeck/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T05:46:15.000Z I’m joined on this episode by journalist Max Rodenbeck, currently the South East Asia Bureau Chief for The Economist, based out of New Delhi. SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. Max began his career in Cairo, and has since covered every major event affecting the region from the late 1980’s; so much so that in late 2010, Max predicted the seismic changes that were to come in Egypt the following year. Max is not your usual spat. He grew up in Egypt from the age of 2, his wife is Egyptian and he has deep roots in the country. He is also the author of one of my favourite books, [Cairo: The City Victorious](https://www.amazon.com/Cairo-City-Victorious-Max-Rodenbeck/dp/0679767274?ref=at-media-group.com). ### Fatma & Amina Ghaly URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/fatma-amina-ghaly/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T05:45:47.000Z We’re kicking off our new season with Fatma and Amina Ghaly, the two talented sisters who are the driving force behind the luxury jewelry brand, [Azza Fahmy](https://www.azzafahmy.com/me/?ref=at-media-group.com). They work hand-in-hand to ensure their mother’s philosophy and aesthetic are moved forward for a new generation of customers. SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is one of the largest mixed-use developers in Egypt that designs, builds and manages their own properties which have grown to become the heart and soul of the communities they serve. The sisters have been instrumental in taking the firm from a local Egyptian niche company to a luxury international brand with 19 retail doors across the Middle East as well as in London and Washington DC, and a staff of over 280 people. ### Season 2 of ‘What I Did Next’ launches August 23 URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/season-2-of-what-i-did-next-launches-august-23/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T05:35:44.000Z We’re thrilled to back with you for a new season of What I Did Next, starting Monday. Season 2 is a bit less Egypt-centric, we’ve cast a wider net to include an amazing line-up of guests from across our amazing region, and across a range of industries—from We’re also excited to announce that the season will be sponsored by [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?ref=at-media-group.com). Whether you listen to the show on your walk, your commute, your workout or simply bumming around, we hope you enjoy this season! Remember to stay connected to us for the latest episodes and news. ### Listen to What I Did Next on the radio in Dubai URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/blog/listen-to-what-i-did-next-on-the-radio-in-dubai/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T05:34:51.000Z You can now listen to What I Did Next on the radio in Dubai. As part of our partnership with Amaeya Media, What I Did Next will air on Talk 100.3, the newest addition to the Fun Asia Network. Tune in on weekdays at 11 a.m. to catch TalkCast, the podcast hour. Episodes of What I Did Next will air on Thursdays during September. ### Malak Fouad: Behind The Scenes URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/malak-fouad-behind-the-scenes/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T05:45:20.000Z We're wrapping up season 1 today with a slightly different episode. My producer Chirag Desai is turning the tables on me and asking me about my own life journey and the show's two staple questions. SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is the leading mixed-used developer in Egypt, with an ever growing portfolio of commercial and residential projects. A big thank you to our guests this season, and to all of you for joining us, and leaving us wonderful reviews. A new season of *What I Did Next* is currently in the works with another amazing line-up of guests coming your way in a couple of months. Until then, please stay tuned to our [Instagram](https://instagram.com/what.i.did.next?ref=at-media-group.com) where we'll be sharing bonus material from Season 1 and news on what's coming next. ### Startup Scene: Malak Fouad looks at life’s pivotal moments URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/blog/startup-scene-malak-fouad-looks-at-lifes-pivotal-moments/ Last updated: 2024-02-27T22:05:27.000Z Startup Scene’s Yahia Dabbous speaks to Malak Fouad for a feature on [*What I Did Next*](https://amaeya.media/what-i-did-next?ref=at-media-group.com), a podcast about life's pivot points: > For Fouad, a career storyteller whether it be in journalism or as a company strategist, podcasting has therefore become a natural progression. The beauty of podcasting, she says, is its immediacy; "you’re connecting with someone else and having a discussion.” > > As she brings to light stories of the Middle East that present a hopeful future for the region, she has been met with touching, enthusiastic responses from the diaspora. “I got a review from an Egyptian woman abroad who spoke of how happy she was to listen to *What I Did Next*, because it allowed her to reconnect with her country in a very positive way.” ### Omar Samra URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/omar-samra/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T05:44:46.000Z Omar Samra is the first Egyptian to reach the top of Everest, he’s climbed the 7 Summits and he has skied to both the North and South Pole. He is the founder of [Wild Guanabana](https://wildguanabana.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), one of the region’s leading adventure travel companies. SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?ref=at-media-group.com) is the leading mixed-used developer in Egypt, with an ever growing portfolio of commercial and residential projects. In 2017, Omar took up a maritime challenge with his friend Omar Nour to highlight the plight of refugees who were crossing dangerous waters to seek a better life. That journey ended just 1000 kms later, and the men had to be rescued. The trip has become the subject of a documentary called [*Beyond the Raging Sea*](https://www.beyondtheragingsea.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), which has garnered rave reviews at various film festivals. This episode also brings us towards the close of season 1\. For the final episode next episode, the tables are being turned on me. I'll be in the hot seat, answering the questions I've been putting to my guests all season. ### Ali Ali URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/ali-ali/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T05:43:55.000Z SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is the leading mixed-used developer in Egypt, with an ever growing portfolio of commercial and residential projects. My guest today comes from the world of advertising. Ali Ali is the co-founder of Good People Films and one of the most highly respected and sought-after advertising directors around. The Gunn Report named him one of the 10 most-awarded directors in the world and AdWeek placed him amongst the top 10 most exciting directors of 2020. ### Jehane Noujaim URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/jehane-noujaim-documentary-film-director/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T05:58:36.000Z SPONSORed by ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/08/Marakez.png) [Marakez](https://marakez.net/?utm%5Fsource=at-media-group.com) is the leading mixed-used developer in Egypt, with an ever growing portfolio of commercial and residential projects. Jehane has captured the zeitgeist time and time again in her work. She’s the engine behind such well-known documentaries as Startup .com (2001) and Control Room (2004). More recent films include The Square (2014), the Great Hack (2019) which is available on Netflix, and the series The Vow on HBO, all produced in collaboration with her husband, Karim Amer. ### Samih Sawiris URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/samih-sawiris-orasscom-el-gouna/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T05:16:55.000Z My guest today is Samih Sawiris, the founder of Orascom Development Holding which operates 33 hotels with over 7,000 rooms and controls approximately 100 million sqm of land. He is perhaps best known as the person behind El Gouna, a tourist resort town on the Red Sea coast of Egypt. Samih is above all, a sort of renaissance man, and a person who doesn’t define himself by his career or profession. He has a multitude of interests and he consciously prioritises the work / life balance. Now that he is no longer involved in the day-to-day running of the company, he is spending time developing his passions and checking off his extensive bucket list. Our interview was recorded at the end of 2020. If you’re enjoying the show, leave us a review in [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-i-did-next/id1549640242?ref=at-media-group.com), or [IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14051098/?ref=at-media-group.com), or reach out to us on [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/what.i.did.next/?ref=at-media-group.com). ### Dina El-Mofty URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/dina-el-mofty-injaz/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T05:59:45.000Z My guest today is a multi-award winning powerhouse in the NGO landscape of the Middle East. Dina El-Mofty is the co-founder of [Injaz](http://injaz-egypt.org/?ref=at-media-group.com) in Egypt in 2003\. Dina’s first pivot came at the start of her career and she has been shifting gears ever since. Moving from education to the start-up world, Dina has used her entrepreneurial know-how for the benefit of others; helping people garner employment skills and then translating them into businesses and new opportunities. Dina’s positive and upbeat approach are dynamic and impactful. If you’re enjoying the show, leave us a review in [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-i-did-next/id1549640242?ref=at-media-group.com), or [IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14051098/?ref=at-media-group.com), or reach out to us on [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/what.i.did.next/?ref=at-media-group.com). ### Sarah Trad URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/sarah-trad-beit-trad/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T06:01:00.000Z I’m joined this week by Lebanese hotelier Sarah Trad, who is the owner of [Beit Trad](http://beittrad.com/?ref=at-media-group.com), an idyllic and luxurious guesthouse in the mountains of Lebanon. She is also the co-founder of Skoun, the first-of-its-kind drug and addiction rehabilitation center in Beirut. But beyond her professional pivot points, it was a major change in her personal life that resonated with me the most. Sarah has consistently pushed the bounds of convention and has chosen to go down her own path, even when those choices are at odds with what is expected. ### Jalal Abu-Gazaleh & Dalia Sultan URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/jalal-abu-ghazaleh-dalia-sultan/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T05:14:35.000Z I’m joined on the show today by Jalal Abu-Gazaleh & Dalia Sultan, the husband-and-wife team behind Gourmet Egypt, a company that has raised the bar for food retail in Egypt. Join our conversation to hear about their pivot points — from the cute way they met to the challenges they encountered in the evolution of their business. The conversation blends the personal and professional and we meander down memory lane to key cross-roads along their path. If you’re enjoying the show, leave us a review in [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-i-did-next/id1549640242?ref=at-media-group.com), or [IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14051098/?ref=at-media-group.com), or reach out to us on [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/what.i.did.next/?ref=at-media-group.com). ### Ahmed Alfi URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/ahmed-alfi-savari-ventures/ Last updated: 2026-08-24T05:13:33.000Z My guest on the inaugural episode of What I Did Next is Ahmed Alfi, a well-known name in the tech start-up world in both Egypt and the Middle East. From starting his career on Wall Street, Ahmed moved to Egypt in 2006, went on to co-found Sawari Ventures and is also the co-founder of Flat6Labs and the Greek Campus, a startup innovation hub in downtown Cairo. Tune in to the episode to find out all about those turning points in Ahmed’s life, who he’s inspired by, and what makes him tick. ### Introducing: What I Did Next URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/introducing-what-i-did-next/ Last updated: 2024-08-08T12:12:33.000Z *What I did Next* is a show that will explore life’s pivot points, both professional and personal. We’ll look at life’s journeys through this lens and how sometimes certain circumstances can lead to life-altering changes. Season One launches February 4, 2021 with a fantastic mix of guests from the Middle East who share their pivot points. Do you take the left or right at the fork in the road? Do you choose the path less traveled and go against what is expected? These are the big questions at the heart of this show—questions that inform and shape our lives and the paths we take. The people I’ll be interviewing will either be from the Middle East or have a connection to the region in some way. These are people who are multi-national, multi-lingual, are engaged, curious and passionate about knowledge and aim to leave a positive imprint on the world. They represent a variety of industries and careers but they all have one thing in common: they aren’t afraid to do it their way.