> ## Content Index > Fetch the complete content index at: https://www.at-media-group.com/llms.txt > Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further. # Suzanne Zeidy & Rawah Badrawi on their life’s pivots - URL: https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/suzanne-zeidy-rawah-badrawi-on-lifes-pivots/ - Published: 2026-09-22T08:00:03.000Z - Updated: 2026-09-22T08:18:02.000Z - Description: Continuing the conversation with Suzanne & Rawah, co-authors of Egypt: Recipes and Stories from an Ancient Land. - Author: Malak Fouad - Tags: What I Did Next, Authors, Egypt We’re continuing my conversation with Suzanne Zeidy and Rawah Badrawi, he co-authors of a new book *Egypt: Recipes and Stories from an Ancient Land.* On this episode, Suzanne and Rawah tell me about their life’s pivots, marriage, children and friendship. We also talk about being the sandwich generation, and whether we can really have it all. SPONSORED BY [![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2025/05/IMG_2097.jpeg)](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) EFG Hermes One is your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. [Start Investing Today ](https://app.efghermesone.com/?ref=at-media-group.com) ALSO SPONSORED BY ![CTA Image](https://storage.ghost.io/c/76/c3/76c3534d-f5bc-4022-826e-e0a2930ce71a/content/images/2026/02/AZ-Website-Logo--Transparent-.png) On the episode, Malak is wearing Azza Fahmy’s [Fallahy Kaf Earrings](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/fallahy-kaf-earrings?%5Fpos=175&%5Fsid=8066ad361&%5Fss=r&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne), the [Mamluki Kaf Bangle](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/mamluki-kaf-bangle?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne) and the [Gold Roman Chain Ring](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/gold-roman-chain-ring?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne). Suzanne Zeidy is wearing Azza Fahmy’s [T-Lock Necklace](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/t%5Flock%5Flove%5Fnecklace?%5Fpos=1&%5Fpsq=T-Lock+Necklace&%5Fpsid=0bd05e2d6&%5Fss=e&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne) and [Gold Rosette Necklace](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/gold-rosette-necklace?%5Fpos=4&%5Fpsq=gold+rose&%5Fpsid=db65de37b&%5Fss=e&utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne), the [Joyful Ring](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/joyful-ring?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne) and the [Endearment Gold Ring](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/endearment-gold-ring?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne) Rawah Badrawi is wearing Azza Fahmy’s [Mabrouka Earrings](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/mabrouka-earrings?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne) and [Filigree Kaf Ring](https://www.azzafahmy.com/products/filigree-kaf-ring?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzannehttps://www.azzafahmy.com/products/filigree-kaf-ring?utm%5Fsource=youtube%5Fpodcast&utm%5Fmedium=youtube%5Flink&utm%5Fcampaign=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne&utm%5Fid=WIDN%5FRawah%5FSuzanne). If you’ve enjoyed this episode, I’d love to [hear from you](#ghost-comments). You can also leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on Instagram. You can also watch Part 1 of our conversation, where they tell me how they came together to write this incredible book [here](https://www.at-media-group.com/what-i-did-next/suzanne-zeidy-rawah-badrawi-on-egypt-recipes-and-stories-of-an-ancient-land/) or in your favourite podcast app. I’ll be back in a couple of weeks for an *Encore* with journalist and author Hala Gorani. ```vtt 00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:02.960 Did you do anything with food while you were doing your business degree? 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:06.540 I ate a lot. I went out to restaurants. 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:08.070 You developed your palate. 00:00:08.070 --> 00:00:08.670 Exactly. 00:00:08.670 --> 00:00:10.280 What's your least favorite activity? 00:00:10.280 --> 00:00:10.900 Small talk. 00:00:12.620 --> 00:00:16.230 Unfortunately, AI is not going to take that away. 00:00:19.580 --> 00:00:24.010 This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing 00:00:24.010 --> 00:00:26.440 in more than 35 stock markets worldwide. 00:00:30.390 --> 00:00:33.270 This episode is also brought to you by Azza Fahmy Jewelry. 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:44.890 As a lot of my guests and my, you know, my audience know, I've often interviewed 00:00:44.890 --> 00:00:50.080 friends on the show, but I have never interviewed two people who I'm so close to. 00:00:50.890 --> 00:00:55.630 It's almost like interviewing family. You both have had very interesting careers 00:00:55.630 --> 00:01:00.370 in your own rights, some similarities, at least maybe educationally. 00:01:01.310 --> 00:01:07.990 but more than that, you like a lot of women began in one place and then we are 00:01:07.990 --> 00:01:13.490 now in a very different place with our own interests, our interests have shifted. So Suzanne, give us 00:01:15.710 --> 00:01:22.930 just a, kind of, the highlights of what you see as having been your career in your 20s and your 30s so 00:01:22.930 --> 00:01:27.540 I'm half Egyptian half American I grew up in Cairo. My mom moved to Egypt in 00:01:27.540 --> 00:01:31.700 the 1960s I grew up in Zamalek. I went to the British school. 00:01:31.700 --> 00:01:34.840 Before that, I went to an Egyptian school. I went to Port Said school until I 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:37.450 was eight. And then I went to the British school. 00:01:37.820 --> 00:01:39.530 My life was Zamalek. 00:01:40.610 --> 00:01:43.720 I finished that.. it was GCEs at the time. So I finished at 16. 00:01:44.330 --> 00:01:48.630 And at that point, I went straight into AUC. 00:01:50.060 --> 00:01:56.710 So done with AUC at 20 and started to work with my father. My father was working 00:01:56.710 --> 00:01:57.830 in industrial catering. 00:01:58.550 --> 00:02:02.990 So food was very much part of our life. But this was basically the next step. 00:02:02.990 --> 00:02:06.410 After that, what I wanted to do was to go to culinary school. 00:02:07.090 --> 00:02:10.740 So you recognized an interest in food from an early age? From my teens. 00:02:10.940 --> 00:02:15.250 From my teens. It was just a hobby, an interest. I just, I liked it. 00:02:15.250 --> 00:02:16.380 Something that I wanted to do. 00:02:16.380 --> 00:02:17.930 You would cook at home. You would bake. Yep. 00:02:18.250 --> 00:02:21.940 Yep. Both. You know, I did a lot of cooking, a lot of baking. 00:02:22.530 --> 00:02:26.530 Just the world of food intrigued me. And then, you know, I was thinking, 00:02:26.530 --> 00:02:28.460 okay, I'll go to culinary school. I want to go to culinary school. 00:02:28.460 --> 00:02:31.890 And I had my eye on this one particular one, which is a two-year program. 00:02:31.890 --> 00:02:32.730 And that was in New York. 00:02:32.730 --> 00:02:36.510 Yeah. And my mother said, this is after AUC, right? So I had already graduated, 00:02:36.510 --> 00:02:38.130 studied economics in university. 00:02:39.610 --> 00:02:42.200 And she said, look, do whatever you want to do. 00:02:42.970 --> 00:02:47.600 But if you're going to do that, get a proper degree first. Those were her words, a proper degree first. 00:02:48.060 --> 00:02:50.430 It's like the people who become actors. Their parents tell them, 00:02:50.430 --> 00:02:52.380 get a degree first and then go and do what you want to do. 00:02:52.820 --> 00:02:56.530 Yeah, fair enough. So, you know, I took it as.. I was like, 00:02:56.530 --> 00:03:00.480 okay, yeah, all right. And I ended up, after working for three years with my 00:03:00.480 --> 00:03:06.070 dad, I ended up going to New York and did a master's of business, an MBA. 00:03:07.320 --> 00:03:11.430 And I thought at that point, you know, that that itch would be gone. 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:14.100 But it wasn't. and I still wanted to go to culinary school. 00:03:14.100 --> 00:03:17.300 And did you do anything with food while you were doing your business degree? 00:03:17.760 --> 00:03:18.890 No. No, you didn't? No, no. 00:03:18.890 --> 00:03:22.650 You just focused on that? Yeah. I mean, I had no time to do anything. 00:03:22.650 --> 00:03:26.640 Right, right. I ate a lot. I went out to restaurants. 00:03:27.160 --> 00:03:28.180 You developed your palate. 00:03:28.180 --> 00:03:29.430 Exactly, exactly. 00:03:29.430 --> 00:03:31.390 And then, so after business school? 00:03:31.390 --> 00:03:35.320 So after business school, I still wanted to go to culinary school. 00:03:35.320 --> 00:03:39.050 I couldn't justify doing the two-year program that I wanted to because I just 00:03:39.050 --> 00:03:41.080 finished the two-year master's program. 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:41.340 Yeah, yeah. 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:47.170 So I did a condensed one. I did six months, worked around the city in some restaurants. 00:03:48.140 --> 00:03:53.180 And then, you know, I felt obliged to go back to Cairo, which was, you know, 00:03:53.180 --> 00:03:54.800 What I was that expected of you? 00:03:56.440 --> 00:03:58.540 It wasn't said, but yes, 00:03:58.540 --> 00:03:59.810 But you could feel it. Yeah, for sure. 00:03:59.810 --> 00:04:00.920 Yeah, for sure. 00:04:01.110 --> 00:04:03.990 And so you came back and you went to work with your father. 00:04:03.990 --> 00:04:07.110 I went to work with my father. The moment I got back, I started working with 00:04:07.110 --> 00:04:10.860 my father. And one of my best friends said to me, if you're serious about this, 00:04:10.860 --> 00:04:14.360 about doing a restaurant, I'm with you. Let's do it. Yeah. You know, 00:04:14.760 --> 00:04:17.200 I didn't even have to think about it. Yes, yes, yes. A hundred percent. Yes. 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:23.350 And that hobby became La Bodega, which started in 99. Exactly. 00:04:23.350 --> 00:04:26.490 And it was you and two partners, right? Two partners. Two of our friends. 00:04:26.490 --> 00:04:28.190 Yeah. You guys opened this restaurant. 00:04:28.590 --> 00:04:33.410 And you basically invented the modern dining scene in Cairo. 00:04:33.410 --> 00:04:37.390 Well, look.. as far as I'm concerned, and a lot of our friends are concerned, 00:04:37.670 --> 00:04:40.360 Look, at the time, restaurants 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:45.520 were in five-star hotels because they had the alcohol license. 00:04:45.520 --> 00:04:49.670 You know, you had Jackie's. You had, well, you had the Four Corners, which wasn't a hotel. 00:04:49.670 --> 00:04:52.330 Yeah, you had a couple of random restaurants here and there. 00:04:52.330 --> 00:04:54.530 A few. But they were old and dated. Yeah. 00:04:55.140 --> 00:04:59.070 And it was all, you know, French cuisine, Italian cuisine. It was that. 00:04:59.070 --> 00:05:03.890 Yeah. So this was different. And it wasn't planned to be different. 00:05:03.890 --> 00:05:07.570 You know, when we started looking for a space, we found a little space. 00:05:07.570 --> 00:05:11.960 And I don't even think that you know this. It was a small bar. 00:05:13.080 --> 00:05:13.720 In Zamalek? 00:05:13.880 --> 00:05:18.140 In Zamalek. It was the bodega space, but it was only one part of the bodega. 00:05:18.140 --> 00:05:19.860 Oh, I see. It was divided up into different... 00:05:19.860 --> 00:05:24.680 My big memory of that period was that you and your two partners, 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:29.400 Dagher and Maher, were traveling around doing research. And I love this part 00:05:29.400 --> 00:05:32.520 because we would meet up all over Europe and in New York and 00:05:32.520 --> 00:05:34.960 we would go and try out all these restaurants, soi-disant, 00:05:34.960 --> 00:05:36.760 as research. And we would have a blast. 00:05:36.760 --> 00:05:37.620 Yeah, it was fun. 00:05:37.620 --> 00:05:41.460 It was hilarious. It was great fun. Exactly. But it worked. It actually paid 00:05:41.460 --> 00:05:43.860 off because you guys refined your idea. 00:05:44.340 --> 00:05:48.950 It's true. Yeah. I mean, we got ideas, we developed what we wanted to do, but it wasn't planned. 00:05:50.500 --> 00:05:54.520 It came, in a way, by luck, right? So we got this one space. 00:05:54.520 --> 00:05:57.150 I don't want to say it was a brothel, but it was very much like a brothel. 00:05:57.790 --> 00:06:00.800 It was a little bar. We took it and we said, okay, we're going to make something 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:02.400 really nice out of this. It's a small space. 00:06:03.110 --> 00:06:07.090 And then the next door neighbor saw that we were doing something and our hearts 00:06:07.090 --> 00:06:10.240 were in it. And so they gave us that space. Yeah. And that was the bistro. 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:15.060 Yeah. And then the next part was the other side. So it ended up being a thousand 00:06:15.060 --> 00:06:17.800 meters, over a thousand meters. And that wasn't the plan. 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:25.580 I mean, the backdrop of our whole 20s, mid-20s onwards, the bodega was the backdrop 00:06:25.580 --> 00:06:27.250 of our lives. You know, it was amazing. 00:06:27.250 --> 00:06:29.530 It felt like a home away from home. 00:06:29.530 --> 00:06:29.980 It really did. 00:06:30.280 --> 00:06:35.180 I think also because it was the first floor of a residential building. 00:06:35.180 --> 00:06:39.360 It was not your typical restaurant. 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:42.220 And so people felt at home there. 00:06:42.820 --> 00:06:49.230 I also think that the fact that it was run by young people, it made a big difference. 00:06:49.230 --> 00:06:51.320 I mean, most of the other places around town were... 00:06:52.080 --> 00:06:58.520 was solidified and old-fashioned, you know. And so this was just a breath of fresh air, you know. 00:06:59.200 --> 00:07:04.480 So alongside Bodega, you guys also opened Cilantro, which was a coffee shop attached to the brand. 00:07:04.740 --> 00:07:05.670 Again, not planned. 00:07:05.670 --> 00:07:06.320 Not planned. 00:07:06.320 --> 00:07:10.950 Again, so we had Bodega. And then downstairs, there was a very small space. 00:07:11.940 --> 00:07:17.940 And we took that space. And the idea was to have a gourmet store with all kinds, 00:07:17.940 --> 00:07:21.010 truffle oil and cheeses and all of that. And 00:07:21.010 --> 00:07:24.950 we imported a whole bunch of gourmet products. Everything was fantastic. 00:07:24.950 --> 00:07:28.310 This was our plan. And the container never cleared customs. 00:07:28.310 --> 00:07:29.100 No way. I didn't know that. 00:07:29.500 --> 00:07:33.410 Yeah. Is that right? So we were stuck with a space and nothing to sell. 00:07:33.410 --> 00:07:34.860 That's hilarious. I didn't know that. 00:07:34.860 --> 00:07:36.940 So that was another, you know, okay, what do you do now? 00:07:36.940 --> 00:07:37.650 So you have to think on your feet. 00:07:37.650 --> 00:07:40.090 And so then the idea was, okay, we'll have a coffee shop. 00:07:40.090 --> 00:07:40.500 Right. 00:07:40.500 --> 00:07:44.580 And so, you know, I had been to culinary school, so I started doing the pastries 00:07:44.580 --> 00:07:46.910 out of our factory in October 6th. 00:07:47.780 --> 00:07:49.890 And we had a coffee shop and that was Cilantro. 00:07:49.890 --> 00:07:55.740 And now it's become, obviously you sold it down the line, but it's a multi-branch chain now. 00:07:56.300 --> 00:08:01.760 It's a total establishment coffee chain in Egypt. Well, it was before Starbucks, 00:08:01.760 --> 00:08:02.790 Before any of that. 00:08:02.790 --> 00:08:06.260 Absolutely. And it's holding its own, even until today. Rawah, 00:08:06.660 --> 00:08:08.390 your trajectory was kind of different. 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:15.590 You are Kuwaiti, and you came to Egypt in the early 2000s. 00:08:16.100 --> 00:08:22.680 But before that, you kind of jumped ship from Kuwait. After the first Gulf War, 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:23.560 you were like, I'm out of here. 00:08:24.300 --> 00:08:28.450 Tell us about that and how you convinced your parents to let you leave. 00:08:28.450 --> 00:08:34.180 Actually, the summer that Kuwait was invaded by Iraq, I was in a pre-college course in Boston. 00:08:35.070 --> 00:08:38.950 And it was a very dramatic summer, obviously. 00:08:39.310 --> 00:08:42.820 There was a lot of fear and paranoia. And, you know, what do we do? 00:08:42.820 --> 00:08:48.040 Where do we go? It was funny because I was quite young and maybe I was dissociating. 00:08:49.330 --> 00:08:51.630 And I just thought of this, here's my opportunity. 00:08:51.630 --> 00:08:53.150 But you were also away. 00:08:53.390 --> 00:08:53.850 I was away. 00:08:53.850 --> 00:08:58.190 So that also, the distance maybe in your head, allowed you to think in a different 00:08:58.190 --> 00:09:01.260 way, maybe. You weren't in the middle of it with your family. I wasn't. 00:09:01.460 --> 00:09:05.610 So maybe they were in the middle of it. And they said, we need to get you into 00:09:05.610 --> 00:09:09.450 a school. I was about to start my A-level in Kuwait. 00:09:10.210 --> 00:09:16.750 And a friend in the same pre-college program said, listen, I'm a student at 00:09:16.750 --> 00:09:21.290 Andover Phillips Academy. It's one of the biggest or the best boarding schools in the area. 00:09:21.810 --> 00:09:24.210 Why don't you just apply? You have good grades. 00:09:24.210 --> 00:09:26.680 But you're applying in the summer for that fall. 00:09:27.100 --> 00:09:28.630 No, not even. For two weeks later. 00:09:28.630 --> 00:09:29.430 Two weeks later, yeah. 00:09:29.870 --> 00:09:34.170 So I actually literally just called them up and said, hi, you know, 00:09:34.490 --> 00:09:38.490 my country's just been invaded. I have amazing grades, my transcripts with me. 00:09:38.850 --> 00:09:41.470 I'm happy to do an interview, write an essay, do whatever you want. 00:09:41.830 --> 00:09:43.400 Just take me. Will you meet me? 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:49.130 And I think, you know, there is something about Americans. They always like a good story. 00:09:49.470 --> 00:09:54.090 And so I did go for the interview and I found out a few days later that they took me in. 00:09:54.190 --> 00:09:56.920 So did you go back home and then come back or you just stayed? 00:09:56.920 --> 00:10:00.250 There was no time. Wow. So I just stayed. I got scholarship. 00:10:00.330 --> 00:10:00.900 Oh, that's a big deal. 00:10:00.900 --> 00:10:02.680 I got scholarship and I stayed. 00:10:03.290 --> 00:10:04.360 So you didn't see your family? 00:10:04.920 --> 00:10:08.280 I didn't see my family until I graduated from Andover. 00:10:08.280 --> 00:10:12.560 Two years later? Yeah. Wow, Rawah. One year. But I didn't know that. That's tough. 00:10:12.560 --> 00:10:16.690 Yeah. That's tough. And in fact, I remember they didn't grant my father a visa 00:10:16.690 --> 00:10:21.230 to come to the graduation because there was still a lot of visa issues with 00:10:21.230 --> 00:10:27.020 people from these sort of war zones or, you know, and that was devastating for us. 00:10:27.020 --> 00:10:33.100 And that was the sort of the very, let's say, baptism by fire start to my life 00:10:33.100 --> 00:10:38.580 in the U.S. And from there, I went to Georgetown and then from Georgetown onwards to Wall Street. 00:10:39.020 --> 00:10:42.360 And so there were many years spent in the U.S. And actually, 00:10:42.700 --> 00:10:44.210 the first five years of my life 00:10:44.210 --> 00:10:47.460 were in the U.S. because my father was a diplomat in the embassy there. 00:10:47.860 --> 00:10:52.680 So my years in Kuwait were very limited compared to what I ended up spending in the U.S. 00:10:52.680 --> 00:10:55.820 And when you were in Wall Street, you worked for J.P. Morgan? 00:10:55.820 --> 00:11:00.730 I was in oil and gas M&A. Okay. I mean, it couldn't be more different to what I'm doing right now. 00:11:00.730 --> 00:11:06.890 Right. And so now we're talking like the late 90s, right? And then you moved 00:11:06.890 --> 00:11:08.740 to London with a different bank. 00:11:08.740 --> 00:11:12.740 I needed to work less hours. Right. I was exhausted. 00:11:13.260 --> 00:11:17.980 I was completely burnt out. I was done with the sort of, you know, 00:11:17.980 --> 00:11:21.400 that whole finance thing of working till you're finished off. 00:11:21.400 --> 00:11:25.520 And at the time, they were working people to the bone. We all remember that period in New York. 00:11:25.520 --> 00:11:26.250 That's crazy. 00:11:26.250 --> 00:11:28.430 And what were you doing with the Kuwaiti Bank? 00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:29.940 Capital markets. 00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:31.770 So very different to what you were doing in New York. 00:11:31.770 --> 00:11:36.950 Yeah, better hours, more involved with the Middle East. So it was a completely 00:11:36.950 --> 00:11:39.150 different. In fact, it was a kind of mini pivot. 00:11:39.670 --> 00:11:46.300 It's a big pivot because the whole vibe is different, the way of working, what's required of you. 00:11:46.560 --> 00:11:49.190 The work ethic is even different. Completely. It's completely different. 00:11:49.190 --> 00:11:54.420 And I feel like London, the atmosphere is much more chilled compared. 00:11:54.420 --> 00:11:58.880 To New York. I also think there's a much stronger connection with the Middle 00:11:58.880 --> 00:12:01.470 East from London than there is in the U.S. A hundred percent. Yeah, yeah. 00:12:01.870 --> 00:12:03.660 And I felt that I had to make my way back. 00:12:03.810 --> 00:12:10.270 That makes sense. That makes sense. So you eventually moved to Cairo with your husband in 2001. 00:12:10.270 --> 00:12:16.790 My husband is a British-born Egyptian. I thought maybe we were going to live in England, in London. 00:12:16.790 --> 00:12:20.280 But can I just interject? I'll never forget this. I was at your engagement. 00:12:20.500 --> 00:12:23.950 And I think we had met once or twice before you and I.. of course, 00:12:23.950 --> 00:12:25.280 Desha is a very old friend. 00:12:25.610 --> 00:12:28.990 But you came to me and you said, can you believe it? He's dragging me to Cairo. 00:12:30.860 --> 00:12:32.640 And I'm like, oh, wow, that sounds like fun, 00:12:32.640 --> 00:12:33.810 Actually. 00:12:34.150 --> 00:12:36.610 And at the time you were like, I don't know what to do about it. 00:12:36.610 --> 00:12:41.540 I know. You know, the funny thing is when he showed me what he wanted to do 00:12:41.540 --> 00:12:47.270 in Cairo, as someone with a finance background, I could not let it go. 00:12:47.690 --> 00:12:52.540 Even though in my mind, it felt wild that I was moving to Cairo, 00:12:53.930 --> 00:12:58.700 when he said, he goes, give me your honest opinion, not as someone I'm involved 00:12:58.700 --> 00:13:01.570 with, but as a finance person. What do you think? 00:13:01.760 --> 00:13:06.110 I said, you absolutely have to do that, even though I don't know where this is going to put me. 00:13:06.250 --> 00:13:11.900 So at this stage, we all kind of got married more or less at the same time. 00:13:11.900 --> 00:13:13.480 And I met you guys around this time. 00:13:13.680 --> 00:13:16.290 You met us around the same time. Suzanne and I have been friends, 00:13:16.290 --> 00:13:17.640 as I said, for much longer. 00:13:18.100 --> 00:13:22.480 But we kind of started to have children at the same time. So our lives got enmeshed 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:26.970 on a really personal, really fundamental level. I mean, raising kids together 00:13:27.860 --> 00:13:29.860 is a pretty intense activity. 00:13:31.210 --> 00:13:35.000 And of course, a country like Egypt, you know, you have so much support 00:13:35.560 --> 00:13:41.530 And I think we were so lucky because I remember you and I, Rawah, 00:13:42.780 --> 00:13:45.720 there were nine of us one year having babies together. 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:46.120 Yeah. 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:49.910 Do you remember that photo? We have a photo. There was a whole row of us with 00:13:49.910 --> 00:13:53.970 our tummies out here. And things like that are so precious. 00:13:53.970 --> 00:13:54.440 Yes. 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:58.520 And they're so priceless. And our kids are really good friends today. 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:03.460 These are the kinds of things that for me, having been raised outside of Egypt, 00:14:03.460 --> 00:14:10.130 having come like you as an adult to the country after, you can't replicate that anywhere. 00:14:10.820 --> 00:14:15.780 And for me, that's gold dust. And it's something that I'm very grateful for, 00:14:15.780 --> 00:14:21.730 very appreciative of and doing it with you girls, you know, and having our kids, 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:23.640 you know, think the same way, 00:14:24.800 --> 00:14:26.380 Have similar ambitions. 00:14:27.060 --> 00:14:30.970 It's just really special for me. This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes 00:14:30.970 --> 00:14:35.900 One, your one app for investment across more than 35 stock markets worldwide. 00:14:35.900 --> 00:14:40.420 With EFG Hermes One, you can buy and sell orders in real time for immediate 00:14:40.420 --> 00:14:43.210 execution across multiple global markets. 00:14:43.420 --> 00:14:47.060 You can keep track of your favorite stocks by creating and customizing multiple 00:14:47.060 --> 00:14:51.160 watch lists and make informed investment decisions with their advanced technical 00:14:51.160 --> 00:14:54.690 analysis tools to study market trends and investor behavior. 00:14:54.690 --> 00:14:59.310 So supercharge your financial journey and download the EFG Hermes One app on 00:14:59.310 --> 00:15:03.120 the Apple App Store and on Google Play and start investing today. 00:15:03.450 --> 00:15:10.100 So we already talked about how, you know, our generation was raised to believe 00:15:10.260 --> 00:15:12.840 women could have it all or maybe even the generation before us. 00:15:13.370 --> 00:15:17.350 You know, how you could work, you could raise your family, you could have a 00:15:17.350 --> 00:15:20.470 fantastic marriage, you could be the most amazing hostess at home. 00:15:21.310 --> 00:15:26.330 I don't think that's possible. I think you have to kind of make a call at some point and say, okay. 00:15:26.710 --> 00:15:29.790 And it's not even a conscious thing. It's like what you were saying, 00:15:29.790 --> 00:15:31.650 Rawah. I need to focus on the family. 00:15:32.090 --> 00:15:35.380 We had a revolution. We need to focus on the well-being of our kids. 00:15:37.170 --> 00:15:41.410 Do you think that it is a myth or do you think that you can actually have it all? 00:15:42.660 --> 00:15:49.480 I don't know. Well, my upbringing, if I had an idea and I wanted to do something, I was told, do it. 00:15:50.110 --> 00:15:54.730 Don't even think twice. Do it. But then internally, you figure out what you 00:15:54.730 --> 00:15:56.790 can and can't do. And you put those... 00:15:57.570 --> 00:16:01.330 you know, breaks on yourself. Yeah. But I was encouraged. 00:16:01.330 --> 00:16:06.170 Yeah, I was too. Yeah. I was never told by my parents, you can't do that. Exactly. Me either. Yeah. Yeah. 00:16:06.170 --> 00:16:10.680 No, I mean, I would even say that my, my parents, you know, they were educators 00:16:10.680 --> 00:16:15.990 and diplomats and they were, they were not the kind of people that expected 00:16:15.990 --> 00:16:20.740 me at graduating from university to look for a husband and be a housewife. 00:16:20.740 --> 00:16:20.950 Yeah. 00:16:21.310 --> 00:16:25.330 They were expecting me to go out and get a job because they went through hell 00:16:25.330 --> 00:16:27.310 to put me through schooling. 00:16:27.620 --> 00:16:31.890 So their whole thing was, okay, great, go get a job. 00:16:32.330 --> 00:16:35.340 I think, you know, we were all raised that way, but it was, you know, 00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:39.450 I remember so clearly, it was never done in a very overt way. 00:16:39.450 --> 00:16:42.530 It was just like, go. But also, in 00:16:42.530 --> 00:16:47.110 Egypt at the time, there was this sense of, there were so many possibilities, 00:16:47.670 --> 00:16:49.090 right? And things were open 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:52.450 for you to do. But this is more of an upbringing thing, I think, 00:16:52.450 --> 00:16:54.550 because neither of us was in Egypt at the time. 00:16:55.650 --> 00:16:58.290 I think in our case, it's a generational thing and an upbringing thing. 00:16:58.290 --> 00:16:59.510 I think it depends on your family. 00:16:59.510 --> 00:17:01.750 It depends on your family. I think so, too. I think so, too. 00:17:02.330 --> 00:17:07.180 So what about now? We're both, we're all three of us are in our mid-50s. 00:17:07.180 --> 00:17:11.080 I hate to say it, more or less. Early. Early, early 50s. 00:17:12.550 --> 00:17:18.770 What is your productivity like? Do you feel that you are now in a phase where 00:17:19.050 --> 00:17:22.790 you can now put yourself forward, put yourself as a priority again? 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:28.380 after having raised the family. Rawah, you still have a young child at home, but he's on his way. 00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:28.950 He has a few years. 00:17:28.950 --> 00:17:34.670 He's on his way. Sue and I are about to be empty nesters in a couple of months. Crazy. Yeah. 00:17:35.840 --> 00:17:40.470 I feel like this is our time. Absolutely. You know, we've put in the hours of 00:17:40.470 --> 00:17:42.530 the family. We've done what we were meant to do. 00:17:42.970 --> 00:17:45.930 We were the good girls. We were the good moms. We were the good daughter-in-laws. 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:49.290 It's now time for us. Do you feel that? Because I feel that. 00:17:49.290 --> 00:17:54.340 I feel that I have the opportunity to do what I want to. 00:17:54.340 --> 00:17:57.980 Yeah. And also, I think you know yourself so much better now. 00:17:58.320 --> 00:18:01.710 You know what you're good at. You know what you won't put up with. 00:18:01.980 --> 00:18:06.490 Am I right? 100%. And you know that this is, you know, I won't take the bullshit. 00:18:06.490 --> 00:18:08.120 You know what's worth it and what isn't. 00:18:08.120 --> 00:18:13.010 Also, I think there is a great satisfaction that comes from a sense of purpose. 00:18:13.220 --> 00:18:13.710 I agree. 00:18:13.710 --> 00:18:18.640 I think that even for people that don't want a career or maybe have convinced 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.690 themselves that they don't want a career or they don't need to be working because 00:18:22.940 --> 00:18:26.930 they're happy to be at home with the family. And that's great, by the way. No judgment. 00:18:27.310 --> 00:18:28.830 And there's a time and a place, as we said. 00:18:28.830 --> 00:18:36.200 But I do feel that everybody has some kind of sense of purpose that needs to be explored. 00:18:36.460 --> 00:18:39.840 And it doesn't need to be something massive. You know, it could be something 00:18:39.840 --> 00:18:44.340 very small in the larger scheme of things. 00:18:44.660 --> 00:18:48.440 But it's something that only that person can contribute to the world. 00:18:48.910 --> 00:18:53.540 And I hate to say it, but I feel that there are a lot of women in our culture, 00:18:53.540 --> 00:19:00.150 because our culture is quite male-led, that just say, I think I'll just be home 00:19:00.350 --> 00:19:02.080 because that's what's expected out of me. 00:19:02.130 --> 00:19:02.790 And it's easier. 00:19:02.790 --> 00:19:03.190 It's easy. 00:19:03.230 --> 00:19:03.690 It's easier. 00:19:04.150 --> 00:19:04.610 It's easy. 00:19:04.610 --> 00:19:05.230 Let's be honest. 00:19:05.230 --> 00:19:08.950 I'd be afraid of the void. After the kids leave home, I'd be afraid that there's a void. 00:19:09.110 --> 00:19:10.890 Yeah, I agree with you on that. Okay, girls. 00:19:12.020 --> 00:19:12.820 Lightning round. 00:19:13.030 --> 00:19:13.650 Oh, no. 00:19:13.770 --> 00:19:14.040 Oh. 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:15.550 This is the fun part. 00:19:15.550 --> 00:19:16.660 This is not the 'oh 00:19:16.660 --> 00:19:19.410 no' part. This is the easy fun part. 00:19:19.410 --> 00:19:19.860 Okay. 00:19:20.090 --> 00:19:21.190 All right. I'm going to start with you, Rawah 00:19:21.190 --> 00:19:21.880 Oh, no. 00:19:22.760 --> 00:19:26.680 If you had 25 hours in a day, what would you do with that extra hour? 00:19:27.020 --> 00:19:30.600 Read my book. It's very hard to read a book these days. 00:19:31.020 --> 00:19:32.960 You're losing the ability. 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:37.940 Reading fitness has gone down. Yeah. We're overstimulated by information. 00:19:38.760 --> 00:19:41.860 At the moment of recording this podcast, we're in a war. 00:19:42.060 --> 00:19:42.250 Yeah. 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:47.760 It's very hard to sit with a beautiful book and read a couple chapters. 00:19:47.760 --> 00:19:52.390 I agree. And I always sort of have that guilt complex because I'm one of those 00:19:52.390 --> 00:19:57.990 people that has 10 books on my commode. And I'm like, one day I will get through these. 00:19:57.990 --> 00:20:00.620 I'm the same. I'm the same. What about you, Sue? 00:20:00.750 --> 00:20:02.120 I'd be outside walking. 00:20:02.520 --> 00:20:05.710 I know that you do that every day, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Suzanne, 00:20:06.040 --> 00:20:08.130 precision of a recipe or winging it? 00:20:09.370 --> 00:20:10.010 It depends. 00:20:11.070 --> 00:20:12.070 Baking or not baking. 00:20:12.150 --> 00:20:13.870 Exactly. 00:20:14.130 --> 00:20:18.480 Precision. Which would you pick? Would you pick baking over precision? Yes. Precision. Okay. 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:22.330 Rawah, intrepid explorer or pre-planned itinerary? 00:20:22.990 --> 00:20:23.830 Pre-planned itinerary. 00:20:23.830 --> 00:20:26.730 Of course. Really? Yeah. Of course. Oh, wow. 00:20:26.730 --> 00:20:32.070 I have to know where I'm going, what I'm doing, what's there, where I'm staying. 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:35.740 I don't like being, you know, sort of flying in the wind. 00:20:36.050 --> 00:20:41.510 So I was recently in Japan with my family. And I did what you did. 00:20:41.510 --> 00:20:46.560 I did a really, you know, organized plan, but I didn't make it rigid. 00:20:46.560 --> 00:20:51.060 So I gave us a lot of free time. And is that what you would do or would you plan every minute? 00:20:51.060 --> 00:20:56.170 No, I just need to know where I'm staying, where I'm eating and what the services are around me. 00:20:56.170 --> 00:21:00.100 Fair enough. I'm the same. Okay, good. Especially a new place that you don't know, right? 00:21:00.100 --> 00:21:00.560 Yeah, yeah. 00:21:00.560 --> 00:21:02.150 You just had one of our holidays. 00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:07.630 Yeah, we did have one. I have to tell you, you know, I'm normally the organizer 00:21:07.630 --> 00:21:10.610 in my friend's group. No, not when you were there. No, all my family. 00:21:10.910 --> 00:21:14.750 I was so happy to just, we were driven by you there. 00:21:15.190 --> 00:21:16.390 You booked the hotel. 00:21:16.710 --> 00:21:18.630 But it wasn't psychotic, right? It was amazing. 00:21:18.730 --> 00:21:19.290 Yeah. 00:21:19.450 --> 00:21:22.770 But I was so happy to be in the backseat for once. You know, I loved it. 00:21:22.770 --> 00:21:23.410 You deserve it. 00:21:23.410 --> 00:21:28.240 I loved it. You deserve it. So, Suzanne, solitary work or working with a partner? 00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:34.720 Again, it depends. A partner like her, with a partner, but usually solitary. 00:21:34.840 --> 00:21:37.130 I like that. You have to have the same answer. 00:21:37.890 --> 00:21:39.730 Actually, it's the same. 00:21:39.730 --> 00:21:42.830 If she knows solitary, obviously, we have a problem. 00:21:43.210 --> 00:21:46.970 I could never have done this book without her. Literally, if you have a partner 00:21:46.970 --> 00:21:51.090 who gets you and compliments you, compliments your skills, it's perfect. 00:21:51.090 --> 00:21:52.860 Yeah, you were very complimentary on this book. 00:21:52.860 --> 00:21:53.990 Because we know each other so well. 00:21:54.010 --> 00:21:59.170 But you also had clear, distinct roles. Yeah, it was. I, as a friend watching it, I was. 00:21:59.290 --> 00:22:01.940 And we get along and we can we can really have fun. 00:22:01.940 --> 00:22:05.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Looking forward. What are you looking forward to? 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:06.710 What are you excited about, Rawah? 00:22:06.710 --> 00:22:12.610 You know, what I'm excited about is to put Egypt on the map in different ways. 00:22:13.120 --> 00:22:18.060 It's been, I don't want to say we've been or it's been very unimaginative about 00:22:18.060 --> 00:22:21.510 Egypt, whereby people observe 00:22:21.510 --> 00:22:28.200 Egypt through the lens of antiquity and maybe some other things, 00:22:28.410 --> 00:22:30.120 maybe some negative things as well. 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:36.830 And what I would like is for the narrative on Egypt to become fresh, new, and different. 00:22:37.210 --> 00:22:43.290 And one of the things that this book will hopefully do is open some little corners 00:22:43.290 --> 00:22:47.290 of conversation of how you can experience Egypt, 00:22:48.030 --> 00:22:52.490 whether culturally, from a food point of view, you are now beginning to hear 00:22:52.490 --> 00:22:54.460 about experiencing Egypt through food. 00:22:54.690 --> 00:22:54.980 Yeah. 00:22:54.980 --> 00:22:59.060 Through the culinary stuff. For sure. And so what I would like is for Egypt 00:22:59.060 --> 00:23:04.330 to become much more layered than what it has been presented to so far. 00:23:04.330 --> 00:23:06.550 Yeah. Interesting. What about you, Suzanne? 00:23:06.650 --> 00:23:11.510 I'm looking forward to traveling and exploring so much more. I also went to Japan. 00:23:11.830 --> 00:23:12.060 Yeah. 00:23:12.060 --> 00:23:17.410 And, you know, that was only an eight-day trip. I'm looking forward to more, you know, 00:23:17.410 --> 00:23:21.370 So discovery of new places. That's a trip we should take together, girls. Oh, gosh. 00:23:21.730 --> 00:23:22.930 We need more time to do that. 00:23:22.930 --> 00:23:25.990 So looking ahead, I'm going to start with you, Sue. What is something you're 00:23:25.990 --> 00:23:28.970 concerned about? What are you anxious about when you look around you? 00:23:28.970 --> 00:23:34.320 At the moment, I'm concerned about the political world, what's going on in our region. 00:23:34.320 --> 00:23:34.640 Yeah. 00:23:35.780 --> 00:23:41.350 Things that are out of your control and how that affects everything. 00:23:41.350 --> 00:23:43.170 Yeah, that's what's worrying. Unfortunately, that's worrying. 00:23:43.170 --> 00:23:44.340 Yeah, yeah. And you, Rawah? 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:49.450 Look, I mean, I'm a little bit scared of technology. You know, it's already... 00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:53.830 scary to me. Where it is right now is already scary to me. 00:23:55.040 --> 00:24:00.140 And like you, I have been trying to self-educate on where are we going? 00:24:00.140 --> 00:24:06.580 I mean, I have a son who is about to go work in San Francisco in AI-related 00:24:06.580 --> 00:24:09.160 data centers. And I'm thinking, where are we going? 00:24:10.340 --> 00:24:16.950 And is this last sort of vestige of romantic world that we're in, that we were in the 90s. 00:24:16.950 --> 00:24:21.420 We know what it was like to just kind of live your life and not have a smartphone 00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:26.490 and interact with people and be in a job where you don't have all these tools 00:24:26.490 --> 00:24:27.920 to help you to get your work done. 00:24:28.570 --> 00:24:34.270 I'm a little bit, and because I don't, I feel I'm not very good with technology. 00:24:34.270 --> 00:24:37.320 Like I don't take full advantage of the tools at my disposal. 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.470 I don't know what it's going to be about. And that mystery is a bit scary to me. 00:24:41.470 --> 00:24:44.280 Suzanne, if you had to choose another profession, what would it be? 00:24:44.770 --> 00:24:45.670 An architect. 00:24:46.260 --> 00:24:49.460 Really? I never knew that. Interesting. Why? 00:24:49.840 --> 00:24:51.000 I love aesthetics. 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:51.720 Yeah. Yeah. 00:24:53.080 --> 00:24:58.970 I like creating environments. I like that world where you put it all together. 00:24:58.970 --> 00:25:00.710 Okay, interesting. And you, Rawah? 00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:04.530 It would still have to be very close to the whole travel-writing thing. 00:25:04.530 --> 00:25:09.260 So it would have to be something related to exploring or being in nature or, 00:25:09.260 --> 00:25:13.510 you know, sort of that whole Nat Geo world. 00:25:13.510 --> 00:25:14.990 Nice. Favorite activity? 00:25:15.100 --> 00:25:18.610 Look, I love eating. I love eating good food. Hence this book. 00:25:18.610 --> 00:25:21.980 As we can say for sure after the weekend we just had as well. 00:25:23.040 --> 00:25:25.770 I love eating good food. I love eating good food with loved ones, 00:25:25.770 --> 00:25:28.950 with people I love. And I love nature. 00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:32.940 But do you like to cook the good food or do you like to be taken to a good restaurant? 00:25:33.360 --> 00:25:37.160 Both. But I don't like to cook if it's a chore. I don't like to feel like, 00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:41.390 you know, I have to cook because I'm kind of doing something that is stressful. 00:25:41.390 --> 00:25:43.620 Sure. I love to cook for people I love. Yeah. 00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:48.380 And I also adore nature. And I love walking my dog in the woods. 00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:52.430 So I think they're really just the most wholesome things. 00:25:52.430 --> 00:25:55.060 Yeah. And what about you, Sue? Eating. Eating. 00:25:55.060 --> 00:25:56.720 Yeah, full stop. Nice. 00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:58.700 What's your least favorite activity? 00:25:59.700 --> 00:26:00.680 Cleaning up, tidying up. 00:26:01.630 --> 00:26:02.380 And you, Rawah? 00:26:03.830 --> 00:26:04.420 Small talk. 00:26:06.120 --> 00:26:10.900 Unfortunately, AI is not going to take that away. That's going to continue in 00:26:10.900 --> 00:26:13.680 our lives. Okay, last two things. 00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:17.170 I'm going to start with you, Rawah. If I was to start this sentence, 00:26:17.170 --> 00:26:19.470 I want you to end it. Oh, boy. I have a hard time. 00:26:21.270 --> 00:26:24.750 I can't do it. Why? I can't. My mind is blank. 00:26:24.750 --> 00:26:27.590 Okay. Let me go to Sue. Think about it. Yeah. Suzanne. 00:26:27.700 --> 00:26:28.340 Saying no. 00:26:29.110 --> 00:26:33.070 Oh, wow. Is that with work or with everything? Everything. Don't you find that with age, 00:26:33.070 --> 00:26:34.510 it's becoming easier to say no? 00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:37.170 I'm finding it so much easier now. I'm doing it more. Yeah. 00:26:37.490 --> 00:26:38.280 But it's not easy. 00:26:38.280 --> 00:26:39.510 But it's not natural for you. 00:26:40.450 --> 00:26:45.670 That's your mother's Georgian, Southern upbringing, you know? 00:26:46.040 --> 00:26:49.220 Maybe. Who knows? Rawah, what about you? 00:26:50.030 --> 00:26:53.680 So I think I have a hard time learning to be more spontaneous. 00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:58.960 I think after years and decades of having to be so structured as a mom, 00:26:59.270 --> 00:27:02.450 taking care of children, making sure everything is working perfectly. 00:27:02.450 --> 00:27:04.560 But that's your character as well. Yeah. You know? 00:27:04.560 --> 00:27:08.100 So it takes some work for me to just be like, okay, let's just, 00:27:08.100 --> 00:27:12.500 yeah, let's just, I don't know, let's just completely throw this plan out and try something else. 00:27:12.500 --> 00:27:14.740 So maybe we need to take her on vacation next time. 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:14.880 I know. 00:27:15.540 --> 00:27:17.630 And she will have no say in what's happening. 00:27:17.630 --> 00:27:18.530 I'll be very nervous. 00:27:18.530 --> 00:27:20.850 I'm sure you will. Does anyone ever do that for you? 00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:26.130 Yeah, of course. And I think the element of surprise worries me because I'm like, 00:27:26.130 --> 00:27:27.720 where are we going? Wow. 00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:29.360 Yeah, I'm like, what's happening? Did you plan it? 00:27:29.360 --> 00:27:33.900 Do you know that on my honeymoon, Hatem told me, he didn't tell me where we 00:27:33.900 --> 00:27:37.290 were going. He said, you pack for hot and cold. 00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:37.760 Wow. 00:27:38.080 --> 00:27:42.840 And we left Cairo. We got on a plane to Dubai. And he said, look at the board. 00:27:43.350 --> 00:27:45.810 Where do you think we're going? And I mean, I was like, no clue. 00:27:46.110 --> 00:27:47.470 We ended up in South Africa. 00:27:47.890 --> 00:27:51.800 And then I thought that was it. This is lovely, beautiful honeymoon. I'm very happy. 00:27:52.260 --> 00:27:55.700 And then we're leaving South Africa. And we ended up going on somewhere else. 00:27:55.700 --> 00:27:59.180 And I had no idea. He managed to keep the... Where was it? We went to Mauritius after. 00:27:59.600 --> 00:28:01.300 But he kept the whole thing from me. That's beautiful. Yeah, 00:28:01.300 --> 00:28:04.140 that's nice. And it was the last surprise he ever did. 00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:10.280 No, no. And that was done for me, too. But I think I need to mentally learn to just let it go. 00:28:10.280 --> 00:28:12.940 Yeah. I'm a bit like you, but I'm getting better with time. I am, 00:28:12.940 --> 00:28:16.190 too. You know, I am. I'm finding that I want to let go more. 00:28:16.190 --> 00:28:17.880 Yeah. You know, last question. 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:23.020 I will go to you and you will answer first. Oh, my God. I get joy from. 00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:31.680 I get joy from sort of gentle mornings where you can start, 00:28:32.170 --> 00:28:36.900 sort of intentionally with a great cup of coffee, reading a beautiful thing 00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:40.190 that you want to read, starting with your article, taking your shower, 00:28:40.510 --> 00:28:43.930 not being rushed, you know, going for that walk with the dog. 00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:48.630 I feel gentle, quiet mornings are very underrated, starting the day in a way 00:28:48.630 --> 00:28:52.310 that's really kind and intentional. 00:28:52.310 --> 00:28:54.860 I was just going to say that word. It's intentional. Yeah. 00:28:55.280 --> 00:28:59.440 Starting the day that way to me, it actually, if I start the day that way, 00:28:59.630 --> 00:29:01.150 I'm in a good mood for the rest of the day. 00:29:01.520 --> 00:29:05.920 If I start the day abrasively, rushed, 00:29:07.040 --> 00:29:11.520 I had to just have, you know, whatever I could find and not eat a proper breakfast 00:29:11.520 --> 00:29:17.300 and not be able to like, you know, if that happens, I'm not able to almost like 00:29:17.300 --> 00:29:18.580 calm my thoughts for the day. 00:29:19.120 --> 00:29:22.460 I agree with you. I'm like that too. My mornings are extremely precious. 00:29:22.460 --> 00:29:23.660 They're almost sacred. And I have a system. 00:29:23.660 --> 00:29:24.640 They're sacred rituals. 00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:28.880 For sure. And you, Sue, I get joy from... 00:29:29.460 --> 00:29:32.790 Lingering for a really long time around the dinner table. Yeah. 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:34.980 That's nice. After the food's all gone. 00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:37.300 Yeah. And good conversation. Yeah. Yeah. 00:29:37.940 --> 00:29:40.120 Girls, thank you. Oh, it's been lovely. 00:29:40.120 --> 00:29:41.700 Thank you. That was it. Thank you. ``` ```chapters 00:00 Coming up... 01:00 Suzanne: La Bodega & Cilantro 08:02 Rawah: Kuwait to New York 15:02 Can women have It all? 19:11 Lightning Round ```